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Post by frozboz on Aug 27, 2012 8:21:59 GMT -5
Sarghir, what happened to Lyssanne? Any tips for us warriors beyond level 70? RIP mate, hope to see you try again soon! RIP Lyssanne. I was cheering for you... my playtime isn't what it once was, and I really wanted to see a warrior make it.
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Post by ferrestella on Aug 27, 2012 8:23:58 GMT -5
Oh no! I'm so sorry to see this! I was cheering so much for you! RIP Lyssanne.
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Post by Lyssan on Aug 27, 2012 9:33:27 GMT -5
Thanks all:(
Lyssanne died from my own stupidity and overconfidence in Wintergarde Crypt. She didn't die in combat but at the hands of two lowly skeletons spawned after I picked up the book quest there, which ignored my Shadowmeld and put a debuff on me that killed me in seconds. The thing that bothers me is that I didn't need to do these quests. At 79, they award only about half of the full experience. But I was so close to 85, that I just ignored any inner voice telling me not to risk that area. I remembered now that Lyssan the priest had the same issues there, but she had heals and Power Word Shield. Lyssanne the warrior had only her Shadowmeld. In this case it failed.
Lyssanne had a good run. She followed the same rules as Lyssan: no AH, no consumables, no first aid, no looting unless required for a quest.
I will take a break from the challenge but I will probably be back after the patch.
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Post by ferduro on Aug 30, 2012 10:04:36 GMT -5
Sooooo, the new talent system...wow. I already made my peace with losing slam and revenge, but I didn't expect such massive changes in rage generation. Like I said in the Patch 5.0.4 thread, mob fights at five levels beneath character level leave me with 50% of my health. So as soon as two mobs are pulled, chance of survival goes towards 0% (tried this at level 34 in Cape of Stranglethorn). I am very disheartened right now, but do you guys see any way of reaching level 85/90 under this conditions? I'm close to calling for a rule change for warriors, allowing specialization to get a rage generating ability. But maybe there's something I am not seeing, so what do you guys think?
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Xaya
Community Moderators
Posts: 1,663
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Post by Xaya on Aug 30, 2012 19:23:48 GMT -5
played some more my lvl 41 warrior. No battle shout, no cleave, no rage. Tried the satyrs quest in Desolace near Nijel's Point. Grey lvl 31 mobs, but it takes forever to kill them.
I will stop doing ironman with a warrior, unless specialization is allowed
Gonna try a new non iron warrior, to see if the game is still enjoyable with this class (when you hate dungeons, raids and PvP)
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Post by resilient on Aug 31, 2012 15:28:42 GMT -5
Warrior looks tough as hell right now. They took away some useful abilities and we're not generating enough rage. I just remember that Blizzard has a long, long history of messing with warrior rage generation. Eventually, it might get fixed. Maybe in a year or so. My warrior is in her 20's and I don't think she's going to make it to 30 unless something changes.
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Post by ferduro on Sept 4, 2012 6:33:19 GMT -5
I played around some more with my warriors.
First I took my first iron warrior, Ferduro, out for a spin, targeting mobs 5 levels below me. Defensive stance is completely useless it only generates 1 rage every 3 seconds. Heroic Strike as your main damage dealer uses 30 rage so you could use it every 90seconds. Execute also uses 30 rage. So the only viable stances are Battle Stance and Berserker Stance, though I haven't made up my mind which one is better. Killing mobs in Battle Stance is doable. At level 34 you try to use Heroic Strike as often as possible and throw in Thunder Clap (6s cd), Heroic Throw (30s cd) and Disarm (60s cd) whenever they are available. Killing an enemy this way leaves me with 40% to 60% health, so considerably less than pre patch. It may be possible playing this way, but one should definitely avoid dealing with more than one enemy. Also, the higher your level, the slower your natural health regen becomes. So, after every fight you have to either eat sth or use a bandage which just makes leveling slow and tedious.
I then gave said warrior Protection Spec to see the difference. The whole picture changes. It almost gets too easy killing normal mobs. Using Prot Spec you gain 3 massive damage spells which also generate rage. At lvl34 Heroic Strike does about 150 damage. The spec abilities do anywhere between 400 and 900 damage. It goes to a point, where I only have to use rage to execute. Maybe the other specs provide rage generating skills that aren't that high in damage, I haven''t tried those yet.
I also started leveling a new iron warrior. The first few levels you hardly see a difference to pre patch. At level 9 I died fighting a silver mob who never gave me any trouble before. From the get go Defensive Stance is useless and I suspect, that rage generation starts to decrease after hitting level 10 when specialisations are unlocked. As soon as I reach level 10 we'll know for sure.
They way I see it now, the warrior class is unplayable following ironman rules. I applaud anyone who manages to get to 85 without specs now, but I call for a new, grander title to award such a feat. Without meaningful rage generation warriors are stripped of a vital element of their game mechanic. Without it, leveling becomes tedious at best. Allowing specs solves the problem of rage generation, however, gained skills seem a bit overpowered in the case of Prot Spec.
As a next step I propose trying out Fury and Arms specializations and comparing them to Protection. Let's identify the one specialization that gives the least powerful rage generation skills and agree to only allow that one specialisation. This would ensure comparability between iron warriors.
What do you guys think?
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Post by Lyssan on Sept 4, 2012 10:11:12 GMT -5
I share most of your feelings and (from what I tested) I feel that warriors are the closest ones to be almost unplayable under the current rules. However, they are not impossible. Also, allowing warriors to get a spec would change the scope of this challenge which was to beat the game without any of the perks regular characters get. We all chose to do this not because it's easy but because it is hard. That being said, it is a personal challenge so it's up to you. Getting a warrior to the end line, with or without a spec, IS an accomplishment. Personally, if I decide to level another warrior, it will be under the current rules even if a spec will be allowed.
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Xaya
Community Moderators
Posts: 1,663
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Post by Xaya on Sept 4, 2012 18:29:48 GMT -5
warrior without spec are now like a mage out of mana at the start of every fight. The only difference is they can wear mail, so don't die as fast
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Post by frozboz on Sept 4, 2012 20:01:22 GMT -5
It's tough. I won't lie. Worse than that it's really boring too. Eat after every fight and prepare to use bandages a lot more. But there is a distinct rotation I've found, at 67 at least, that does relatively well. Warriors are probably the most gimped post-patch, but I believe it can be done. There really don't need to be any rule changes imo.
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Post by ferduro on Sept 7, 2012 10:38:45 GMT -5
Wow, you guys are determined I'm not sure what I'll do with my current warrior. I think I'll let him rest for a while and continue leveling an Iron Rogue. All the best to you all!
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Xaya
Community Moderators
Posts: 1,663
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Post by Xaya on Sept 8, 2012 20:25:06 GMT -5
managed to get to 42. Battle shout, with a 1 min cd, is very useful to get some rage now and then; as combat does not generate much. I can now survive a combat with 2 mobs 5 lvl below me.
Still not sure if berserker or battle stance is the fastest to generate rage (or rather which one is less slow...)
Xayaeigeen 68 hunter Wyrmrest Accord (dead) Xayatwentou 42 warrior Wyrmrest Accord Xayatwetre 40 hunter Wyrmrest Accord
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Xaya
Community Moderators
Posts: 1,663
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Post by Xaya on Sept 9, 2012 16:00:19 GMT -5
Xayatwentou is dead at 42. Seemd it was presomptuous of me to think I could handle 2 lvl 36 Grimtotems in Dustswallow march.
My DPS was around 95. After my death, I choose prot spec, switch to defensive stance (no talent), and DPS jumped to 250. I tried 'The deserters' before I died but couldn't kill them fast enough, they started respawns behind me so I left. After my death, with prot spec, did the quest with no problem and without any close all
Warrior is now 'off limit' as an iron toon for me
Xayaeigeen lvl 68 hunter (dead), Wyrmrest Accord Xayatwentou lvl 42 warrior (dead), Wyrmrest Accord Xayatwetre lvl 41 hunter, Wyrmrest Accord
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Post by ironwood on Sept 9, 2012 23:50:34 GMT -5
R.I.P. xayaqc!
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Post by thereallink on Oct 22, 2012 5:47:47 GMT -5
I shared most of my thoughts in the Death Rage thread since I'm not on these boards as often. Sarghir / Lyssa, it's awesome that you were able to get that far and knowing how challenging it was to be near 71, I commend you for screaming past us all. I did dabble at the start of Northrend but simply couldn't handle any Nerubians on shore at all even at 70.
Like I said, while my then-on-hold attempt picked up after MoP at 32, I got to 33 and died in STV to tigers, pretty shocked that so much has changed. So far I'm 26 in Duskwood and while more used to how we're rolling now, I do feel it is going to be an incredible challenge.
A spec sounds so wonderful but I know it bucks the rules. I want to continue without one but I stll wonder if we couldn't do it before, it will be more challenging now. But hey, our class is resilient! Keep on guys and good luck.
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