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Post by iarnaig on Apr 13, 2014 10:58:11 GMT -5
Yep, I think I'll do just that when I can get Fallen Crusader, couple of lvls too low at present, I was just trying to figure out if it's worth it when I hit 70. At present, not sure - the potential of dual wield is an interesting one though, effects of two runeforges instead of one might make a difference, so I'll want to investigate that some more I think, too. Kinda fun having choices to make, every other iron class I've tried it's been very obvious which spell to use in any situation, due to lack of other choices! This time I have tons of choice and zero information to go on other than my own guesses, since all DK guides tend to expect spec and gear to be involved
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Post by iarnaig on Apr 17, 2014 20:18:00 GMT -5
Ok, level 70, learned Fallen Crusader runeforge and bought some new weapons in Dalaran to play with Annoyingly there isn't a lvl 70 target dummy in Ebon Hold, only 65 and 75, so I used the 65 one to avoid misses skewing results, in any case we're usually fighting green mobs! Unfortunately even standing as far to the side as possible, Blood Boil hits 2 dummies, so that will change things, however since it's 58% of my dmg in normal fighting anyway, I guess a bit more won't hurt Did a couple of control tests with no runeforges, 200k dmg each time (thank goodness I don't fight high health mobs yet, my goodness it's slow). Obviously, this isn't a reflection of a regular fight where I start with runes available, but hopefully it should be some indication. 2h: 863 dps (Blood Boil 62.9%, Attack 7.4%, Blood Plague 7.4%, Frost Fever 6.9%, Death Coil 6.8%, Death Strike 5.3%, Icy Touch 1.9%, Plague Strike 1.3%) Dual Wield: 859 dps (Blood Boil 63.5%, Attack 7.9%, Blood Plague 7.4%, Frost Fever 6.9%, Death Coil 6.7%, Death strike 4.5%, Icy Touch 1.9%, Plague Strike 1.2%) Healing done (dual wield, forgot to check on 2h but it will have been the same as it's a % of my health: 7051 Basically, no real difference, dual wield attack was a little higher, but then the 5 lvl difference reducing miss penalty might make a difference - certainly it's no big overall loss, which is useful for trying options with runeforges. I'll save clutter and not give the spell breakdown for my tests, just comments on any major differences. 2h:Cinderglacier: 896 dps, 6635 healing done (lower due to fewer Death Strikes) Fallen Crusader: 886 dps, 8059 healing done Lichbane: 870 dps, 6636 healing done (327 dmg done by enchant, this would be doubled vs undead... still only 0.3% of total dps though) Dual wield:CG/CG: 895 dps, 6637 healing done FC/FC: 885 dps, 9477 healing done LB/LB: 870 dps, 6638 healing done (404 dmg done by enchant) I have to say I'm impressed how balanced 2h and dual wield dps is! Couldn't get any closer FC/CG: 910 dps, 7283 healing done CG/FC: 891 dps, 7880 healing done I'm somewhat puzzled how Fallen Crusader procced more often to heal me when it was in my offhand instead of my mainhand, but ok... luck clearly plays a part. Unless the lower dps meant I hit Death strike an extra time, that'd make more sense I guess. So, overall results: inconclusive lol. Very little dps difference between any combination I tried, by far the most noticeable difference was in healing, dual wield Fallen crusader wins there, by some way. Ordinarily I'd expect it to need to be looked at again if I reach Northrend gear and can only use a comparitively very low dps weapon in my offhand, however, white dps is only about 7-8% of my total dps, and offhand will be less than half of that, maybe 3% of my dps. Given that, having an offhand weapon half the dps of my mainhand may not hurt so badly! Guess I'm going dual wield now then
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Post by iarnaig on Jun 4, 2014 19:41:07 GMT -5
A little tip for anyone who reaches Vash'jir: your Army of the Dead spawns on the sea floor, and not where you are if you happen to be floating some way above the sea floor... nearly got myself killed doing the elite eel because of that one, as by the time they reached me my health was low and they'd aggroed 2 crabs on the way, plus they didn't have much time left on them so I got to deal with eel plus crabs after they despawned, great. Closest call I've had yet, overall DK seems a very strong class for ironman, just be aware of spawning issues like that!
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Post by alonaa on Jun 5, 2014 5:31:22 GMT -5
Glad you survived I've probably died more times in that area than in any other in WoW I think. I'm talking normal characters ofc, I wouldn't be seen alive there with my ironmen Anyways I suggest the following .... give them some kind of buoyancy aids? Take them somewhere safe to practice swimming? Remove their heavy boots? Hope this helps
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Post by iarnaig on Jun 5, 2014 8:27:13 GMT -5
Haha I wish I could improve their swimming skills As it is, learning to adapt to it is the best option hehe Vash'jir is actually a fantastic ironman zone, so long as you can be aware of incoming mobs in a 3d environment, as, for some reason, it's easier than Hyjal - named quest mobs in Hyjal were really really tough for me when I first went there at 83-ish on my warlock, Vash'jir ones are far lower health, so it makes a better starting point for Cataclysm content, for me, at least
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Kyrie
Iron Veterans
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Post by Kyrie on Jun 23, 2014 0:48:30 GMT -5
So glad you rolled a dk!! One of my absolute favorite classes....when my pally finally makes it and/or my priest, I'll definitely be doing the DK "challenge." ;-) Good for you, Iarnaig!! Thanks for the notes too.
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Post by iarnaig on Jun 23, 2014 6:21:21 GMT -5
Thanks Kyrie It's a really fun class, feels slightly overpowered compared with my warlock, I've been able to do a few quests I didn't dare to risk last time out! Army of the Dead is basically your "I Win" button, at 86-87 it takes out anything up to 150k health (obviously while I'm dpsing alongside it), which includes almost all 5-man elite quests in Icecrown; I made it to 135/140 on the achievement before getting stuck at two which had higher health and I didn't want to risk. Blood Boil is ridiculously overpowered, ok, you have to wait for runes, but with diseases up it hits for 6k! Have to make the most of that one; in WoD it'll scale properly with your attack power and so probably just about tickle the mobs; however I've killed some using Blood Strike instead and it's workable, just very slow. If ironmen are still possible at high levels come WoD I'll have to get in the habit of using my ghoul as much as possible to give me a dps boost (at present I only need him when I'm fighting mobs 3-4 lvls below me, anything 5+ is fine without him) Maybe not a "real" ironman class, but it's very fun to play, glad I gave it a go
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Post by iarnaig on Jun 30, 2014 7:28:43 GMT -5
So, having made it to the end, I guess I can give a few thoughts on the levelling process First up, your rotation and spell use has two distinct phases: pre-Cataclysm and post-Cataclysm, basically! The low health of pre-Cataclysm mobs, means you don't need to keep both diseases up (except on high health boss-type ones), so my approach to them is basically pull with whatever's ranged and available (Icy Touch, Death Grip, Death Coil), and get one disease up (Blood Boil does 50% more dmg if there's a disease on the target), then spam Blood Boil, and whatever else may be available at the time. Death Strike if doing tougher mobs, if farming easy ones, anything will do! You'll find that Blood Boil does so much dmg that you can even carefully kill same lvl mobs (I went to Isle of Quel'Danas at 70, although I was VERY careful with my pulls!), though I generally quested 3-4 lvls below my lvl for safety. By the time you're still doing Icecrown dailies at 85+, you can chainpull like mad and tend to find yourself slowed down by waiting for a disease to be available; I found that using Empower Rune Weapon (refreshes ALL runes) let me even do the whole packs of Converted Heroes by lvl 87 - Outbreak > Pestilence > Blood Boil > Empower Rune Weapon > Blood Boil > Blood Boil would see all 7 mobs dead with me on about 70% health if done fast enough Cataclysm onwards, mobs have far higher health, and you'll want both diseases up on the pull, then spam Blood Boil and Death Strike, Death Coil when it comes available. When you reach lvl 82-83 mobs, you'll start finding you need to refresh diseases before they die - don't use Outbreak (applies both diseases) to pull, save it for the refresh, as this way, you don't use runes on refreshing and can have an extra Death Strike heal instead. Makes a big difference to me having that extra heal during the fight, rather than at the start when I don't need it. In the same vein, I often hold off on using Death Strike at the start, until I've taken about the same amount of dmg as it will heal - if my 2nd lot of runes come off cd, then I'll use it anyway, but on harder hitting mobs it's worthwhile to get the max out of your healing. Luckily, your healing is a % of your health so increases significantly each time you lvl up - I usually found that +5 lvl gap mobs were comfortable, +4 a bit hard going but manageable, and +3 really tough, had to use my ghoul on them to get them down faster. Although the only +3 I did was Molten Front dailies (the ones in Hyjal, not inside the portal) so they may have been tougher than a 3 lvl gap usually would be. Your entire fighting pattern is determined by runes, each one has a 10 sec cd and it's often rather boring waiting for them! If you happen to do a fight where something other than you is tanking, it's worth switching to Unholy Presence, as you get a haste buff which also slightly icnrease rune generation. Can't say it's a noticeable difference but I guess every little helps! For normal play I use Blood Presence, due to the dmg reduction from it; at low lvls it also makes a big difference to your health pool, although it's not really noticeable later on (it buffs your stamina, not health). Dark Simulacrum isn't worth using btw - you still take the dmg, and the dmg you deal in reply is minuscule, I assume it scales with your stats or something! On the flipside, Army of the Dead is incredibly powerful, by the mid 80s you can do most Icecrown 5-man elite quests with it, and it'll get our out of pretty much any screwed-up pull (I accidentally got 3 mobs at once in Deepholm at one point, army dealt with them nicely for me!). All in all it's a super-fun class, maybe a bit easymode for those of you who've done harder classes tbh, it was certainly easier than my warlock (once I got out of the starting zone!), but nice for a change of pace, as it's a bit faster than warlock was, anyway.
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Post by iarnaig on Jun 15, 2015 17:20:33 GMT -5
Not actually tried my DK since 6.0 but just logged on her for a minute and noticed I had a red weapon... odd I thought. Further investigation reveals that DKs can no longer dual wield - well I guess that solves the runeforging theorycrafting then!
Just a pity I was dual wielding, and even worse, my spare 2h weapon (Enti's Quenched Sword) has been heavily nerfed, to the point where it's useless, great. Had a lvl 70 vendor sword in the bank, guess it'll do but *sigh*, didn't expect weapon types to get messed around with, else I'd have kept more spares (was lucky I had that many in the bank, I guess a holdover from when I was testing runeforges...)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 21:00:20 GMT -5
yeah... there's no dual-wielding until later in the starting area.... not sure what level to be honest; but the best you can really hope for is a random gray or white weapon to drop from the damned scarlet mobs... cause the pitch fork dropping from the miners is absolutely pathetic.
It's very hard; I've almost given up on it.
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Post by iarnaig on Jun 16, 2015 8:46:32 GMT -5
There's none at all; my DK is lvl 90. Frost spec only now! I've not tried the starting area since 6.0, might give it another go sometime, but I want to actually got a warlock to 100 first, so it might take a while...
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Post by marston on Jul 22, 2015 18:56:25 GMT -5
I've started a DK since that's my main and I would really like to play one as an ironman. As we all know, the starting area is hell. I've managed to get level 56 and beat the duels at least. Got my armor, the pitchfork and a gray one-handed weapon. I am currently wielding that one, as my white hits are stronger, but the skills deals less damage (12 for Plague Strike and ~36 for Death Strike I think). I tried the Horseman once but fucked up early and just clicked the debuff away to leave the realm. I will probably level to 57 to get Blood Presence, but since that will take ages I will just camp Acherus for rested EXP and only do that every few days for a bit. I remember that one of my first DKs I made 1 or 2 years ago got a grey two-handed weapon pretty early on and with that I had not much trouble with the scarlet mobs. But that was also pre WoD.
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Post by Broken Fox on Aug 17, 2015 0:43:11 GMT -5
Getting out of the DK starting zone on pure Iron rules is probably the most difficult WoW challenge there is haha
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Post by badken on Dec 24, 2015 18:13:25 GMT -5
I'm going to have to see some video before I believe The Endless Hunger can be completed naked. I wasn't able to kite the Initiate, because they just kept casting Icy Touch. The closest I got to killing one after about an hour of trying was getting it down to about half health.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2015 18:22:07 GMT -5
I have a video up of killing the Initiate naked. I've done it myself. It's possible.
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