Rogue spec?

[xenoun]

Hello, I recently decided to look up the iron man challenge as something different/fun to do.

I'm not interested in doing the easiest class/race combo possible etc so I let a friend choose the race and used RNG to choose my class. I've ended up with a human Rogue. I've never played Rogue before but at the early levels at least it's fairly simple and easy to use.

My question is what spec is the best choice for the iron man challenge? I switched to outlaw at level 10 (currently level 11) because there were swords available from the vendor that gave me quite a large damage boost but long term I don't know if that's the way to go or not. 

There are some nice daggers at level 14 but I'm counting my silvers and at 30 odd silver each they're a bit pricey for me to buy and try it out. Managed to find a green recipe and some other stuff I've put on the AH so if that sells I'll have no problems but until then I need to make a choice and stick with it.

So any pointers on what spec to go with, if the best choice changes as you level etc? I've gone over the general tips for where to level and when but any Rogue specific advice would be welcome. The last forum thread on it dates back to 2012 with the last post in 2016, didn't really want to necro it with questions.

[Xaya]

I prefer outlaw myself (but my main 110 is outlaw rogue too). Died at 89 or 90 (don't remember how)

Ster got one to 110 using subtlety, and now working on a second one (at 107) with outlaw. He probably have a different opinion

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Xayawarrior lvl 80 nightelf warrior (alive) Wyrmrest Accord
Xayahunter lvl 70 tinman night elf hunter Wyrmrest Accord
Xayamonk lvl 110 tinman draenai monk Wyrmrest Accord
Xayapaci lvl 36 pacifist gnome rogue (alive) Wyrmrest Accord
Xayahorde lvl 15 bloodelf rogue (alive) Wyrmrest Accord

[mosotti]

It's a good idea to start with the easiest class, just to see what to expect. At least with a hunter you actually play the game, meaning you actually kill mobs, not wait months for low level dailies and other events. Early levels don't matter, they are easy for anyone and everything. But with a rogue you won't probably be able to kill anything in Legion for example...

['Ster]

Hey - yea, got both Ironster and Catster to 110 using Subtlety. Outroguester is about to ding 108 and is Outlaw.

Truth be told, they are both about the same with very minor differences. Maybe the differences are more pronounced when you can pick talents, but for stock rogue, they are very close. Meaning, you'll be playing core rogue capabilities with either spec, using SAP, blind, initial hit, combo points, finish. One philosophy I always have: smack 'em hard, kill 'em fast, stealth off. I don't like fights to drag on, so I avoid those finishing moves that take 20-25 seconds.

Outlaw has Pistol Shot which is cute, but the range is fairly short, so it's not like you're turning the rogue into a ranged fighter. It is mostly convenient for 1-shotting low-level prey, like doing the WS Cub daily. For a regular, at-level fight, I use Pistol Shot during the fight to add a combo point. But, mostly Ambush, Pistol Shot, 5 dots, boom with Run Through. Roll-the-bones is cute, but hasn't really done anything for me in a fast fight. I keep forgetting to use Bribe, which is also cute, but overall is a lot of work. The main defense for rough fights is Riposte, which is mostly parry, and not as good as Subtlety Evasion.

Subtlety feels more balanced with offense and defense. Same as Outlaw, opening hit, get 5 dots, boom with Eviscerate. The defensive Evasion is much stronger than Riposte, so you can take on named bosses a little better.

Overall, get your core rogue skills honed. After your human dies, re-roll with Night Elf so you'll have both ShadowMeld and Vanish (not till level 48). You'll have moments when you need both. Learn to heal mid-fight with Crimson Vial, and above all, if a fight is not going good, abort with SM or Vanish, heal up, cool-down and try again.

Good luck !

[xenoun]

Thanks for the tips, sounds like subtlety is the way to go. I had a suspicion it would be, hence why I asked the question.

I'm guessing assassination isn't worth considering.

['Ster]

I love assassination on a regular rogue, especially when doing PvP. (evil grin) But for Ironman, no so much.

[Margothon Lord of the Elements]

My 74 Rogue is Outlaw, the playstyle is almost like a petless hunter, using pistol, hardly any melee involved.

[tholetrix]

Sept 14, 2017 9:10:48 GMT -5 Margothon Lord of the Elements said:

My 74 Rogue is Outlaw, the playstyle is almost like a petless hunter, using pistol, hardly any melee involved.

That's really interesting. I'm currently running a Rogue as Outlaw and I like it the best of the three for the challenge. But why do you avoid melee combat? It seems much tougher & more boring to play like this as there are like two abilities that are ranged. I would think you miss out on swift kills by omitting Ambush, right? 

Anyways OP, my pick is definitely Outlaw. 

[brittleiron]

Not to mention Outlaw has find treasure ability..... easier chest hunting

[xenoun]

Sept 15, 2017 9:57:31 GMT -5 brittleiron said:

Not to mention Outlaw has find treasure ability..... easier chest hunting

I didn't even realise that was a thing. Have it turned on now, thanks!

[kargh]

Played my Rogue as an assassination until he died at 75 (dumb mistake) and it felt really good and viable. It's just a matter of preference, since I don't like Sub

[shinryuji]

As Bloodthirty rogue I played outlaw from level 10-65 and I thought things couldn't get any better. After reading the discussion here I went on to try Subtlety. Here's my 2 cents on this matter.

Killing mobs my lvl or upto 3 levels higher, my playstyle is Ambush/Shadowstrike -> Run Through/Eviscerate. If the mob is above 5% after opener I use finisher, otherwise I let autoattacks do the job. A crit with the opener always kills the mob. If I have 5 combopoints after 2 opening one-shots I open with the finisher on next mob as it's more energy efficient and it's always one-shotting the mob. If I can't kill a mob with Opening -> Finisher I move to an area with lower lvl mobs. I just don't use combopoint builders unless I pull an extra mob or get a free pistol shot.

Outlaw
Pro's - Ambush is safe (read on) and Find Treasure.
Cons - Energy efficiency

Subtlety
Pro's - Shadowstrike mobility (free "shadowstep" on every cast) and energy cost (40 vs 60) compared to Ambush. Symbols of death (40 energy) I use as a Thistle tea every 30 seconds. Compared to outlaw delay in between mobs is at lot less. Sprint cd 1m vs 2m.
Cons - Shadowstrike..... getting chills thinking about it. Targeting an evading/bugged mob gets you disconnected. Happened to me once and my heart skipped a few beats. After logged in I found myself near the same area with 10% hp (was full hp). So make sure you mark all evading mobs if you plan to grind. When getting in a new area I make sure to spot the evading mobs and mark them so I can stay away.

All in all the energy efficiency and mobility of Subtlety takes the cake and I will be sticking to it.

EDIT*** A few hours later, ported to a mob in Blades Edge Mountain (Ogri'la area) and got disconnected, upon returning I was stretched out. Dinged 69 and ripped. No more Subtlety for me!!! 

['Ster]

Holy Toledo! I agree with your assessments Shinryuji, Subtlety is great for mobs and getting into a rhythm of going from one to another while working your way to the back of a cave. I've never seen the disconnect you described using a rogue talent, that's terrible. Sounds like a leftover bug from 7.3, I am still seeing a few graphic glitches now and then. Only DC bug I have experienced since 7.3 is porting to Garrison. Other night I had just done the WS Cub daily, so was standing around there, hit the Garrison port, it goes thru the motion, but gets stuck at the loading screen. Then DC. That happened 3-4 times so I gave up on Garrison and hearthed to 7 Stars. Really strange. But yea, ShadowStrike is supposed to be deadly for your prey, not for you.

[Towny]

That garrison hs bug is very annoying, I've found it seems to work better if you exit the battlenet app.

[theironwolf]

i use outlaw 100% for roll the bones not because its good but because i like the animation