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Post by maarius81 on Nov 26, 2017 3:44:16 GMT -5
Edit: New Rules (Nov 26)
I got these ideas on my trial run for the crafting challenge. Especially the xp-stop was very fun for me personally, but people who want to level up their characters fast might hate it; so it's totally optional (like every rule in this challenge, because it's casual and can't be tracked). XP-stop (optional)-) optional if you don't care about the level-up speed and want it more challenging -) stop the xp at the minimal level of the zone you're doing, starting with level 10 -) do all the yellow quests (& more IF you can), then turn on xp gain again -) this rule makes getting outside gold necessary, since the xp-turn-off costs 10g each time. Either you get the gold from one of your alts or you might allow selling stuff in the auction house) -) Edit: I tested it for a few hours. While it felt really good, it's also extremely immersion breaking (looking at your xp, your level, turning on and off game progress). -) Edit: I'll keep it as purely optional and won't incorporate it in my trial runs. I tried this during my crafting challenge run and found it really motivating, because it's finally challenging and you aren't 5 levels higher than the quests you're doing. I had to plan the order I do the quests, had to pick out single mobs since packs were dangerous and I had to avoid areas with high level mobs. Try it. (still in the test phase) higher gear requirements -) you may only equip gear when the player level = level requirement of that piece + 5 levels. -) example. Chestpiece level requirement: lv.7 --> allowed to equip it: lv.13 -) I'm not sure if this should be true for all items / BoE items or the soulbound items only. -) it may be too complicated, I'll keep this thread updated and tell you how it feels. -) this may be turned down a bit after 1-60 (like +5 --> +1 in MoP) These rules might make this challenge interesting before 7.3.5 hits. Especially since I don't know if there will be higher level mobs in your zone when level scaling sets in. The challenge might be gone completely with 7.3.5
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Post by maarius81 on Nov 30, 2017 12:29:33 GMT -5
((Edit: rule additions (November 30)))small change: no player-arrow on the worldmap; use this command: /script WorldMapUnitPositionFrame:SetAlpha(0) 1.) Testphase: One XP-stop per zone
- I try to find a compromise between constantly switching on/off xp-gain and not doing it. It's totally optional ofc.
- Turn off xp-gain once every zone (see table below)
- easy start into the zones
- start most of the quests
- more difficult towards maximal zone level
changes:
- Flightpaths to other zones: YES
- Hearthstone: YES, for returning from SW/OG
- Auction House for selling: YES
slow questing/Loremaster: do both zones for a level bracket (turn off xp -> do as many quests as possible in zone 1 & 2) 2.) Gear requirements - for blues only?!- too complicated/distracting doing this with all green BoE items (since itemlevel grows exponentially after level 60 and not every item has a required level)
- Testrun for blue items only (Classic (1-60): Itemlevel = equip-level
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I'm not very happy with the crafting rules. I barely craft anything, since the gear I get from drops / soulbounds is mostly better. Maybe I should drop it?! I'm not sure yet.
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 1, 2017 8:02:16 GMT -5
Update: Testrealm experience for 7.3.5 - level scaling implemented
I copied my Soulsearcher toon to the PTR and fought a few mobs. They mostly were at my level and it seems the balancing works quite well with this challenge. With my outdated gear I had no problems with single or paired enemies, but they hurt me enough that I couldn't blindly go into bigger groups.
I really like it so far and it would be great if this goes live.
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 3, 2017 6:48:01 GMT -5
edit: improved readability (added a short info before all the details. It's not as complicated as it looks imho.)
Experience on the PTR: I compared the challenge with normal leveling and found it much more enjoyable because questing still isn't very challenging with green gear.
about killing rares: This rule makes much more sense with 7.3.5 since you can't kill low level rares in your currrent questing zone anymore. They scale to your level and are finally challenging enough to make the reward - an extra life - feel rewarding.
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 17, 2017 3:54:24 GMT -5
update from PTR experience:
I tested questing in Nagrand (Outland) yesterday, did the whole zone except the group quest which was impossible to solo even in green gear. I tested the zone with soulsearcher rules and with no rules.
-) I got very few BoE drops from mobs, many with intellect when I'm looking for strength -) I only gained 1 (!) player level after finishing the whole zone. I'm not sure if that's a bug. Started at level 66 and left at 67,5. Crazy.
So I got only 1 item from the soulbounds and 1 from the drops (bad luck?) in a whole zone, when ignoring crafting.
What I noticed though: being heavily undergeared improved the gameplay actually. Mobs weren't hard but harder than being in fully equipped questgear. Infact normal mobs were trivial when I equipped level appropriate gear.
What this means for the challenge: It looks good difficulty-wise BUT I need to put more emphasis on the crafting part, since its more important for gearing than previously. You'll see less gear from other sources.
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 22, 2017 8:30:44 GMT -5
PTR experience - I'm tuning this challenge for 7.3.5 use only, personally I'm not interested to create a new character before 7.3.5 hits live, it's much more fun on the PTR.
I'm thinking about a small rule change, I'd be happy to listen to your opinion
-) in later expansions, levels come very slow and the heart of the Soulsearcher Challenge is the limited use of soulbound items -) it would be bad if soulbound items become a low priority -) 1 level per zone means too little gear from questitems
idea for a change: -) 1 item per level not anymore, since it takes too long to earn a level in later expansions. -) collect 8 soulbound items. Not more, not less. At this point you choose 1 and destroy the other 7. -) when you get a blue, you'd also have to choose and delete
some thoughts: -) the number 8 was a spontaneous idea, maybe I'd make it lower or higher. -) a low number would probably get the experience close to the normal experience -) a high number would push the priority of soulbounds back
I'd be interested in your thoughts.
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Post by Brynazul on Dec 22, 2017 10:21:41 GMT -5
Okay, for clarification: If I find a Blue BoE item, I can equip it, but I have to destroy my other (currently equipped) BoE?
I like the 8 Soulbound items idea. This way you won't get into a situation where you possibly lose interest in leveling because you feel like you're not progressing your character through gear.
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 22, 2017 12:26:54 GMT -5
Okay, for clarification: If I find a Blue BoE item, I can equip it, but I have to destroy my other (currently equipped) BoE? I like the 8 Soulbound items idea. This way you won't get into a situation where you possibly lose interest in leveling because you feel like you're not progressing your character through gear. no, I was only talking about questgear. A blue reward would mean that you'd have to take a look at all your soulbound items in your inventory and choose 1, delete the rest. example1: you have this in your bag (all unequipped): -) soulbound green gloves -) soulbound green shoes -) soulbound green chest -) soulbound green cape then you get a blue quest reward --> you choose one of 5 items, and destroy the rest (here: the other 4)example2:in your bag (all unequipped)there are: -) soulbound green helmet -) soulbound green cape -) soulbound green chest -) soulbound green chest -) soulbound green pants -) soulbound green gloves -) soulbound green cape so 7 pieces. Now you get your 8th reward --> you choose 1 of those 8 and destroy the rest (here: the other 7) I'm not sure if the example1 rule is needed though. It could make it a bit too complicated. Edit: Yes, I get rid of the example 1 rule, it would influence people in turning in their quests I think. It also makes everything more complicated, which is a bad thing.
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Post by Brynazul on Dec 22, 2017 14:59:09 GMT -5
Ah, okay, that's much easier to keep track of than what I was thinking.
On another note, with crafted gear, do you find you end up crafting gear? Or do you just kind of leave it to quest and dropped gear? I know with Blacksmithing there isn't really any pre 40 plate gear, or mail gear with strength. Do you tend to favor one gearing method over the other?
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 22, 2017 16:06:54 GMT -5
Good question. I admit I haven't tested crafting on the PTR a lot. It feels like a lot of work for some pieces when in most situations I don't feel that I need the upgrade. I haven't tested the 8 items, destroy 7 method yet and I have no idea how much I'd need the crafted piece.
I think leatherworkers and partly tailors have an easier job since they don't have to go out of their way to get the material. They only need to kill mobs, something I like to do.
Do you think the rules "crafting token" makes it harder to go for crafting?
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Post by Brynazul on Dec 22, 2017 17:01:15 GMT -5
I think with the way professions are right now, the gear you can make that's at the same level of quest items, is not as good. I think you'd always end up, even with the 8 item rule in place and no crafting token requirement, never choosing a crafted item over a quest or BoE choice. They've changed the quest and dungeon items over the years, but they've not changed professions in the same way.
When I was testing the Dark Warrior challenge on the PTR, I saw white Plate items that I could make, and mistakenly thought they had fixed professions, after the change to new level 1 plate and mail. A lot of that challenge was based upon crafting your gear. Now I have to rework gearing, or add back the previous level 40 gear requirements just to accommodate outdated professions. This is the case with Blacksmithing. Now, while I haven't tested Leatherworking lately, according to Wowhead, there are low level Mail items that can be crafted. If that's the case, then it's just the Warriors and Paladins that hindered by the challenge.
Unfortunately, there's no quick way to balance crafted gear with quest / BoE drops in a challenge. Not without making a specific rule about maybe having to have a certain number of crafted items equipped at any given time.
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 22, 2017 17:32:09 GMT -5
I think you'd always end up, even with the 8 item rule in place and no crafting token requirement, never choosing a crafted item over a quest or BoE choice. Well, with the 8 -> 1 item rule and being reliant on BoE drops to fill the other slots I think there may be some slots during your journey, which are heavily underpowered - the longer you play. The advantage of crafting is that you can choose which slot you want to strengthen (if you have the right crafting token AND the right recipe for an item of that slot). Also equipping a soulbound items still costs one extra life, so you might not equip one as soon as it's possible... Hm I need to rework the rule about that a bit as well. Totally forgot about it until now. Remember, you are only allowed to equip 1/8 of all soulbound items and BoE drops you can use are quite rare. I'm not sure how this plays out, but I'm testing this on the PTR at the moment.
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 22, 2017 17:46:32 GMT -5
Along with the rule change from the "1 soulbound per level" to the "8-->1" rule (which seems likely to go through at the moment) there needs to be a change to the "equipping soulbound costs 1 extra life" rule.
my thoughts:
-) you get your 8th soulbound -) normally you'd have to choose 1 and destroy the other 7... + pay with a part of your soul (cost: 1 extra life)
-) what if you don't have enough lives? -) what if you feel that it's too risky to pay?
-) --> you choose not to equip -) --> you HAVE TO destroy all the 8 soulbounds
-) there is no way you are allowed to carry 9 soulbounds with you
-) compared to the previous rule, you can't just hoard soulbounds until you can/want to pay... -) now you want to hunt a rare to earn an extra life before you get your 8th soulbound
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Post by Brynazul on Dec 22, 2017 18:26:58 GMT -5
Interesting. This would definitely make crafting gear more relevant. Hm, I think I'd always choose to spend a life to pick an item. If I die, I could fall back on crafted gear. Though getting the mats will take some time...so, hm, actually, I like that. That would be a tough decision, especially at higher levels.
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 22, 2017 18:50:23 GMT -5
Update to OP - streamlining the rules
-) deleted XP-stop rule (not relevant in 7.3.5) -) deleted gear requirements (too complicated) -) Auctions aren't allowed anymore (you have to earn money through selling to NPCs only) -) rule change: 1 soulbound per level --> 1 soulbound from 8 in your bag (necessary since you gain levels much slower in later expansions) -) rule addition: if you don't want to spend 1 extra life for equipping a soulbound, you HAVE TO delete all 8 soulbounds in your bag
next steps: looking into a way to make crafting more meaningful / a better experience
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