rustyiron
Iron Veterans
Never Surrender, Sometimes Retreat
Posts: 431
|
Post by rustyiron on Mar 3, 2012 13:48:24 GMT -5
I'm not the expert, I have only leveled to 13 on a rogue, but I get to 5 as quickly as possible to get stealth. Don't forget to use knives/ guns/ crossbows for those single pulls. Once I got ambush on the goblin I was able to down the mechachicken...
The worgen has darkflight, so my escape method is evasion/darkflight/pray...
|
|
|
Post by iarnaig on Mar 3, 2012 14:43:53 GMT -5
So far, rogues are great for me - my first reached 33, died to carelessness, 2nd is 43 and still alive so far. I've found at times, I'm taking a LOT of dmg from regular mobs, often have to go to another zone and lvl up so my quests are green, but I have one heck of a lot of tools to keep myself alive: Evasion - always use it on named mobs, when you get an add etc, big dmg reduction Sap - easy way to prevent adds; if you're not sure if a mob a bit further away will aggro, sap it first Recuperate - I'm finding myself using this less now tbh, but it's very handy for a bit of health regen in a tough fight, and even more handy for using up spare combo points between fights Kick - essential vs casters! Gouge - I never use this on my 85 rogue, but wow, it's got so many uses now; gouge+bandage is a great self-heal on a tough fight, or gouge when a mob enrages or similar until it wears off, or even just as an extra combo point to make that finisher bigger. Vanish - get out of jail free. Beware of dots though Cheap Shot - the only opener to use after you get it; 2 combo points and no dmg from mob for 4 sec, on both my rogues I found the dmg I take went down a lot as soon as I got this Kidney Shot - I find myself using dmaage finishers more, but it's handy on casters who won't stop casting stuff, between this, gouge and kick, you'll lock them down Blind - crowd control on adds, or use on a tough mob to get the whole bandage off - or even to run away if needs be! Dismantle - annoyingly since I got this I've rarely fought mobs with weapons, but it's a big damage reduction on appropriate mobs Safe Fall - cliffs will be a bit less scary when I lvl into this Cloak of Shadows - this'll be great against casters, and especially if you want to vanish but have a dot on you Combat Readiness - will anyone get high enough to use this? Looks handy if anyone does! General tips: Don't just stealth past everything in a cave and then try the boss - that patrol you skipped may join in, or you may need to run for it and not want more adds. Taking the time to clear a space is worthwhile; use Sap to reduce chances of adds. Don't go into a fight in an area with potential adds if Vanish is on cd (if you have it) - that's what killed my first rogue Especially beware stealthed mobs! Do use Crippling Poison if mobs run away, especially when closely packed; I didn't have any on my first visit to Jintha Alor, and had to blow my vanish cd from runners aggroing friends several times, till I gave up. Be aware your armor is little better than paper, and try to avoid being hit by anything that hits hard! Remember alive is better than dead, and if things are hitting too hard for you, go and level up a bit somewhere else; while hunters can get away with only doing yellow/orange quests, they have a pet to take the hits. We don't, so have to be more cautious, and if that means letting a quest go green, so be it. I've gotta say, that list of tools above; I rarely use half of them on my 85 rogue (which was my main for a while, and is still played a fair amount) - I use them ALL here; ironman is making me a much better player!
|
|
|
Post by kundax on Mar 26, 2012 11:39:10 GMT -5
This is Bratdefertwo and I want to share some of my tricks I've been using.
1. For tough mobs put crippling on the throw weapon and after a gouge take distance and start throwing. High chance on green mob that crippling will apply and you can kite in a circle. It's very slow at high levels but if you need a bandage and still have the debuff this is the way to go. Also this way you can apply a full bandage not only 3 ticks in gouge.
2. Always check if a boss mob is susceptible to disorient/slow.(this includes cripling/gouge/blind). To check this you need to try to sap the boss. If it says immune to sap the plan the fight w/o gouge/bandage and blind/bandage. If you think evasion+dismantle(if applicable) won't get you ahead skip it.
3. After level 30 ALWAYS use wound poison on both weapons. Not using wound on both weapons it's a dps loss we cannot afford. Specially in outland+. If you fight running mobs make sure you have crippling on throw weapon and when they start running throw. Most likely crippling will apply and nice thing about slowwing a mob after he starts running is that they chage direction the opposite way and that is towwards you.
4. DON'T grind mobs. We are too squishy. I always tried to kill the minimum number of mobs to get the quests done. I grinded quests not mobs.
5. Make sure you milk the Azeroth before you hit Outland. You need to be close to 63 before even set foot on Hellfire Peninsula. The reasons I am seaying this is because, unlike Azeroth and Northrend, Outland is lacking in lwo level quests and we need to fight mobs that are at least 3 levels lower.
6. Outland SUKCS for rogue. It sucks BIG TIME. Best advice I have is ALWAYS start each fight at full health. Even if it seems doable to not eat for that extra 300 HP do not make the mistake. ALWAYS start every fight at full health. (I always restock if I drop under 100 foods in my bags).
7. Outland and up: if you dip to under 20% HP and the mob is not dying next hit reset. NO EXCEPTION! A bad luck crit will ruin all your work just because you want to save 30 seconds to re-engage a mob.
8. Outland boss mobs I recomend to do them with at least 5 levels ahead of the mob level. (Check with sap if they can be gouge/blinded).
If I remembwer anything else I will post here.
|
|
|
Post by ebmor on Jul 9, 2012 8:11:11 GMT -5
My basic playstyle: until level 70: opening move: "Ambush" afterwards: "Gouge" (if ready), "Sinister Strike" (otherwise) finishing move: "Eviscerate" poisons (MH/OH): instant/crippling or instant/instant => great control over the whole fight poisons for grinding mobs (around lv68 until 70, MH/OH): deadly/deadly 70-73 (dead): opening move: "Cheap Shot" afterwards: " Shiv" - This is a very powerful ironman ability. finishing move: "Eviscerate" poison(MH/OH): instant/deadly => typically you can "Cheap Shot", "Shiv", "Shiv", "Shiv" before the mob even attacks you (=> 5 combo points, 3-5 stacks of deadly poison) I would strongly suggest to grind 1-2 levels before level 60/70/..., us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1253376893?page=1#1Keep "Stealth"ed as much as possible. Always "Sap" nearby adds. Start every fight only at full health. Try to outlevel all mobs as much as possible (minimum: 3 levels, suggested: >=5 levels) Never do anything without "Vanish" and "Sprint" ready.Look up every named mob on www.wowhead.com(abilities and comments). To look up all other mobs may be useful, too... ~~~ Ebmor(ia) ~~~
|
|
Kyrie
Iron Veterans
Posts: 213
|
Post by Kyrie on Jul 20, 2012 17:35:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice. A rogue is the last class I tried on my main realm. I got her (orc rogue) to level 43 and LOVE her so far so I decided to try it on Ironman. She is an alt, but I am taking her seriously. I am not sure I'll have anything helpful to add to the discussion but if I do I will post. Stealth w/care, Ky
|
|
|
Post by sensulato on Nov 11, 2012 11:20:49 GMT -5
Not that many big changes to Ironman rogue since MoP came about. It's different, but in many small ways. Careful out there, mobs are stronger but so are you, if you can adapt to what has changed...
Backstab is gated behind talenting, so we're back to using simpler rotations... and because of that, no need to equip two daggers any more, use stronger mainhand weapons for better SS damage, instead. Openers: CS got buffed a little but ambush is still strong even without daggers. Experiment with both until you find the style you like.
Note to self: Expose armor, would it be worthwhile to start using it? It gives one CP at almost half the cost than SS, applies a debuff, but doesn't do any damage. Hmm...
Deadly & Crippling feels like the best poison combination, WP isn't worth using really. Even with hard hitting sinister strikes, ambush and eviscerates, deadly poison counts for almost half of all my damage in fights. Use WP if you're used to and good at using Gouge to your advantage, I guess.
We now get some passive skills for free that used to be talents before (Relentless Strikes at lvl 54 for example), and some skills are gotten at different levels than in Cata.
Throw damage is nerfed to oblivion, so it isn't that useful anymore. Except for Stitch in Duskwood. Poor Stitch...
This is speaking from lvl 30 experience, so things might change in a few levels of course.
|
|
|
Post by Crusader JCarrillo@Terenas on Nov 12, 2012 8:36:44 GMT -5
thank you for the Mop update, with Rogues and monks I find it harder to level paladins over many other classes
|
|
|
Post by sensulato on Dec 23, 2012 6:05:25 GMT -5
A small update @ lvl 55+. I bought the mutton weapons (great fun!) from Darkmoon Faire a while a back, and they ended up being very useful. You can only buy those if you are lvl 50 or higher, so take care if you are leveling too slowly (or too fast) not to miss the chance to buy them during a DMF.
I was using double daggers before that... the increased dmg daggers give to Ambush was actually quite substantial, and my overall damage didn't change much even after ditching a 2.60 speed mainhand weapon. These days I'm abusing Expose Armor a lot. With a little care and help of bandages I can even take down most of the higher HP quest mobs around my level.
I take my word back on throw, it really isn't that bad. Low but quick dmg.
|
|
|
Post by irontia on Mar 13, 2013 21:02:05 GMT -5
I've played a rogue as a main almost since I started wow, and it was all getting a bit stale. So ironman was a wonderful way to reconnect with the things I love about rogues.
So far I've killed half a dozen toons through carelessness around level 20 so now I have some ironclad (hehe) rules:
NO group quests, as in the ones you need more than one player to complete (Chet, you evil slime monster especially)
NO attacking close packed mobs being tanked by something else (as a big opener will pull lots of threat and transfer them to you)
I compiled all my deaths and they were the sole reasons, apart from a lag hit at level 35.
Even that was avoidable as i was out of stealth and didn't have my trusty albino snake out to tell me about lag spikes. I play from Oz, so lag normally sits around 200ms but can spike. A companion pet will stay behind if you are lagging and the snake is both visible and doesn't have annoying flappy wings to get in the way of targeting.
A note on weapons - I would ALWAYS go for the slowest, highest damage range weapon as a main hand. Sinister strike damage is calculated off this, and years of raiding as combat have made me very sensitive to weapon damage. I haven't done personal testing on offhand but I believe daggers are marginally better if all else is equal, otherwise just use the highest dps weapon available.
The extra damage from ambush shouldn't be a factor in weapon choice these days - at lower levels it's not necessary to survive, and at higher levels ambush will be a small percentage of damage with sinister strike more important.
Other rules NO attempting mobs higher level due to lack of hit Stealth everywhere possible Always cc if you can, attempt mobs singly
And yeah, throw is good - quick damage, especially good on murlocs.
I tried all the races but I've settled on undead as first choice (even though my main is a goblin and I love her lots). Their self heal racial is a clear winner, and procs off throw as well.
Use deadly and crippling poison, unless your mob is a caster and won't run away, then deadly and mind-numbing. Damage from deadly poison is just too good to pass up even if it does cut into bandage time.
I might think of some other things as i get higher level (fingers crossed!)
Currently Rustia on Wyrmrest Accord.
|
|
Klingy
Cadet
Percier@Outland
Posts: 27
|
Post by Klingy on Mar 25, 2013 16:44:12 GMT -5
I'm playing a level 19 Gnome Rogue (rolled it... , usually play horde, didn't rolled class though) and I've noticed after some testing on the same mobs (not dummies) that Ambush with daggers does 25% more damage vs the slowest hard-hitting weapon I found (axe, bought both at a vendor same IL=16) and the axe does 33% more damage than the dagger with Sinister Strike. So it all depends. Most mobs only need 3 combo points to use a finishing move, others 4, and only rares and above need 5 and some more. But what I usually do is create weapon sets and have them keybinded and have the dagger in the main hand at start, then immediately switching them to use Sinister strike and until the end of the fight. I'm not sure if switching weapons incurs any GCD, but I believe if so the damage loss of 1 second of auto-attack to be less than maximizing both the Ambush and the Sinister Strikes...
|
|
Klingy
Cadet
Percier@Outland
Posts: 27
|
Post by Klingy on Mar 25, 2013 18:58:17 GMT -5
Better yet, 2 macros: #showtooltip Ambush /equipslot 16 Dirk /equipslot 17 Scythe Blade /cast Ambush showtooltip /cast [nocombat, nostealth] Stealth; Sinister Strike /startattack [combat] /equipslot 16 Scythe Blade /equipslot 17 Dirk Replace Dirk with the name of your dagger and Scythe Blade with the name of your slow, hard-hitting weapon. You can add them by shift+clicking on your weapon when editing the macro Apparently, no GCD...
|
|
|
Post by irontia on Mar 30, 2013 18:01:24 GMT -5
Love testing... on reflection for lower levels I'd go daggers, but as soon as you get Cheap Shot ambush doesn't have a place in the rotation - so under Level 30, daggers it is. After, slowest hard hitter you can - the Valley of Honor blacksmiths have good ones. For the Horde!
At the moment Irontia is level 39 (matching my previous high point, I died at 39 in Feralas to the beacon yeti chicken quest, two spawned at the end and the chicken took my blind off the second mob by attacking it and they were much too hard hitting.)
My current favoured rotation, by a bunch of testing on things that hit back, is to CLEAR a space (sap anything you think may interfere).
Then Cheap Shot, two sinster strikes and run like hell until energy gets back to 65ish. Turn and wait. This give time for energy to pool back to 100 and at least three ticks of deadly poison with no damage to you. SS for 5 points, eviscerate, one more ss and they're either dead or you can do one more ss. Health shouldn't be under 2/3 and that point can go in recuperate.
You can also find out if they are nature resistant by watching the numbers on the ticks. If they are they'll be harder to kill. Also, some are casters but just hitting throw can be enough to kill them. I will occasionally run back to kick a spell but casters are usually clothies so throw will work just as well.
Better DPS is obtained by staying and hitting them rather than running (white auto attacks make up quite a lot of damage) but they can take you down past half health if you stay in the hitting zone when they come out of the stun. Not worth the risk.
For quest mobs with lots of health, or rares with lots of exp, I have a rotation that works pretty well: Cheap shot to 4 points, turn and run if possible but it's not often possible for a quest. As soon as they wake up, hit evasion, let energy pool, ss again, let it pool to 100 and hit a 5 point recuperate. The point is NOT to overlap evasion and recuperate but space them out for the long fight.
All the white damage and poison ticks should be bringing them down pretty well. Continue with the ss and evis and they should just die at some stage. I'm often surprised when it happens, actually, because my health is usually still pretty good.
So at level 39 there seems no reason why i should die, except I've noticed my weapons aren't increasing their dps, hence my caution in my own health. Next upgrade is level 40 which I should be at soon.
Multiple mobs are our killer so keep that vanish key handy! I've backed out of eminently doable fights in the name of risk management and I'm VERY glad I did so, since I am still alive.
|
|
Klingy
Cadet
Percier@Outland
Posts: 27
|
Post by Klingy on Mar 31, 2013 8:57:40 GMT -5
Apparently using /equipslot incurs a 1 sec CD anyway... Bur I really think it's worth it, because even if you can kill a mob with 3-4 combo points, probably won't be much of a threat to you. At least in the level 15-25 range. I started wondering about poison application and weapon speed, though... do you think that with higher weapon speed you would apply more poison, enough to worth more than stronger Sinister Strikes from a slower weapon? Because I think poison damage scales much better than higher level grey/white weapons....
|
|
|
Post by irontia on Apr 1, 2013 7:59:09 GMT -5
Testing: the Orgrimmar dummies annoyed me so much (had to hearth out or drop to my death) I went to Silvermoon and tested on a level 60 (lowest I could find). Thus there were a lot of misses.
I tested using level 19 weapons as they were the only ones I could find with equal level and dps. Slow axe at 2.5, fast dagger at 1.6.
Testing was to approx 20k damage (took a few mins!) for all three. Deadly and crippling poison (not that crippling mattered). All I did was sinister strike without letting energy cap. Keep in mind my racial, Touch of the Grave, was approx 14% damage (and healing, undead ftw!) on all tests so it is skewing the percentages a bit, but this will give you an idea.
me level 45, weapons level 19
First test: Two x 2.5 Double Axe DPS: 68.7 50.9% Deadly Poison Dot 4.9% DP instant hit 28.6% SS damage 1.5% white melee
Second test: two Kris 1.6 speed DPS: 76.2 54% DP dot 11.4% DP instant hit 19.2% ss damage 1.4 white melee
Third test: Main hand 2.5 axe, offhand 1.6 dagger DPS: 82.5 50% DP dot 10.3% DP instant hit 25.1% ss damage 1.4 white melee
So - slow MH, fast OH looks like the best choice above level 30 when you switch out of ambush. Poisons are now a chance on hit rather than PPM like they used to be but the much larger extra damage of sinister strike from the slow MH more than makes up for the small amount of extra poison damage from double daggers.
|
|
|
Post by irontia on Apr 1, 2013 20:00:07 GMT -5
I'll add to the above post: I was curious as to how the specs differed (between Combat and Assass) for this test so I ran another session with my main, 477 gear with 476 and 480 weapons. Level 80 dummy in Silvermoon from the front, no misses, dodges or parries. I used SS only in combat, and Mutilate only in assass spec. No energy capping, 5 mins each spec. Combat came out in front damage wise by about 2k; assass would make up for this in real life with dispatch kicking in below 35% health. My gear is combat gear forged for combat; assass spec would come out even better with assass gear and forging.
First test, Combat spec, 476 MH 2.6 speed, 480 OH 1.8 speed dagger
40.2% White melee 26.5% SS 13.0 Main Gauche (combat ability only) DP dot 13.0% DP instant 8.2%
Assassiination spec with 476 dagger as main and 480 OH (to match the dps setup of combat). 33.8% White melee 14.7% Mutilate DP dot 20.2% DP instant 24.0% Mutilate offhand 7.4
So, this spec is the one where poisons go nuts and do most of the damage. Without speccing into it, the instant poison damage just can't be that high.
The most interesting this from these tests is the appallingly low damage from white melee as ironman, compared to 40.2% and 33.8% in level 90 tests (!). Almost everything comes from yellow damage, either poison ticks or sinister strike hits coupled with eviscerate. I've actually taken Slice n Dice off my bar as a result, as 40% more of 1.4 is not remotely worth using up combo points and a finisher.
|
|