Kyrie
Iron Veterans
Posts: 213
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Post by Kyrie on May 1, 2012 12:03:19 GMT -5
Thank you ever so much, Katrii!! I definitely need to get to a higher level then. I will go back to the previous 3 areas and get more out of them than I did. I didn't realize you were going into EPL and Thou Needles at 48+. Yes, it was such a big relief to get into plate! I will keep a look out for them. I have a few pieces I've bought from AH. I check every other day just to see what's there. Thank you again for your wise words. May the Light embrace you as always.
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Post by katrii on May 1, 2012 12:20:00 GMT -5
More positive attitude from you, please. You are not allowed to die! You should not be thinking that way. Your thoughts should be on what you are going to do when you get to Outlands and making sure you have enough gold to buy your flying training and mount.
The object is to survive to 85 not get these quests done with our poor gear. My suggestion is to find areas that are green to you to quest in. What I do is open my map and scroll over the areas of the continents and see which ones are green for me to quest in and go do them. You will want to get as much xp out of Azeroth as you can. You don't want to hit Hellfire at less than level 61 and 62 would be better.
Don't worry about your "big girl pants" that's not the objective of the challenge. You have nothing to prove by being reckless and trying to take on areas and mobs that might be too much for you.
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Kyrie
Iron Veterans
Posts: 213
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Post by Kyrie on May 3, 2012 18:44:18 GMT -5
I appreciate the reminder, Katrii, of what this is all about and the reason I started this --- for the personal challenge and to have fun!! Not sure why but fear started creeping in when I had a few too many close calls within a couple of days. All of a sudden I felt like I would be unable to move forward. I took your advice and went back ;-) I revisited some lower zones and found enough quests and mobs to kill for EPL to turn green. I then went and completed all of the "safe" quests which were all but Battle and Lone Wolf. This helped me gain a couple of levels, regain my confidence, and move on. I am happy to tell you I am level 55 at the moment and just started Winterspring. Thanks again! I have put my "big girl pants" in my closet for my geared (aka "can die all they want") toons. (I have to also remind myself that I am in a guild of ranged dps.) --- Do not currently have any tips to add for the pally board. About to go learn Rebuke. If I find anything that I think will be of help to someone, I'll post.
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Post by katrii on May 3, 2012 20:31:04 GMT -5
Very good! Congrats on Level 55! I'm glad I could help. Sometimes it's easy to lose sight of what the goal actually is. It can be stressful sometimes and the close calls certainly gets the heart rate going (it's the only cardio I get, btw ) but you just have to remind yourself why you are doing this and get back on track.
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Post by bromli on May 5, 2012 0:44:09 GMT -5
aura, seal, blessing, weapon i'm thinking about these choices slightly differently at this point as i said somewhere earlier, it's all about living between WoGs. it would be awesome to do everything with retaura/vengeance/might/2H, but that will likely leave you in an unpleasant spot as far as living between WoGs. remembering, of course, that the test case isn't how bad 1 mob hurts you, it's how bad 2 mobs hurt you. (or 1 normal + 1 hard hitter). that in mind, i expect defense to overtake offense bit by bit until the end. so, the question becomes "in what order do we swap our offensive stuff for defensive stuff?" seal should be first. the mana returns from insight are sick, and the health returns will matter more and more til the end. no math here, just my assumption. (also, i don't ever drink or bandage, makes the mana even more important). i intend to use insight at all times. sword and board is interesting. at some point it is probably necessary, but u can get by at least thru vanilla content with just having one in your bag and make a macro to equip it on the fly. [incorrect info, removed] (for those unfamiliar, the damage stat on your weapon is the base for the damage on your abilities, so a similar level and quality 2h makes all your spells hit harder. this is why the dps stat on your weapon is misleading to new players, and also why slower weapons generally do more dps.) i can't remember if the PPM of insight is normalized to weapon speed. EDIT: SoI is normalized to weapon speed, meaning any weapon should give the same mana returns, at least from auto-attack only. since CS procs it as well, and the proc rate is higher on a slower weapon, the slower weapon will give more overall procs when using a normal rotation. side note: if you don't ever use CS while at 3 holy power ur also losing out on some passive healing from seal procs. devo vs. ret aura: first let me say i don't know how they scale at higher levels. into the 50s, and i have to assume even into the 60s, ret aura is strictly superior in a single-target situation. the problem here is that in a multi-target situation, while your ret aura is doing damage to all mobs, the damage on the secondary targets in no way contributes to your ability to live thru killing the first target. again, you can just change this on the fly (preferably during an open global ). also note that ret aura is better with 1h+shield than with 2h, due to lower dps from sword and board causing you to get hit more times during the fight. blessing: i still can't justify consistent use of kings at all tbh. 20% AP is just too big, and the mana is better (which is more important to me cause of the no drinking policy). MAYBE there's a peculiar situation or 2 that i haven't thought of. meh. (edit: ok so there's a really common situation: magic damage. see below). anyways, i'm going with might>2h>=aura>vengeance as far as what to hold on to when making dps vs. defense choices, always using might and never using seal of vengeance. just my thoughts, we'll see if i agree with myself in a few wks lol. edit: exo burst, weapon swap doesn't work, exo and holy wrath don't scale with weapon damage >.< MAJOR EDIT: sorry i don't have the patience to fix the post, but i left out something very important. kings gets resistances, reducing magic damage by 1/6 if u don't have resistance aura. not sure what the numbers are with aura. obviously this is huge against any magic damage, putting kings ahead on those fights. i'd think kings would be much better to leave on all the time if ur someone who doesn't want to swap blessings.
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Post by bromli on May 5, 2012 0:51:57 GMT -5
and katrii ur awesome, clearly a great ironman player
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Post by katrii on May 5, 2012 1:36:51 GMT -5
Thanks, Bromli! I appreciate the compliment. ;D Your breakdown on the different auras, seals and weapon choices are interesting. A lot of it I didn't know. I just play with what I'm comfortable with. I did switch to using Blessing of Might when I got it on Kahtraa this time instead of Blessing of Kings. I can't tell that it has made a huge difference in mana regen since I use Seal of Insight with either of the Blessing but any little bit helps. As for the 2h vs sword and board, I'm just more comfortable with the extra armor. It's probably all in my head but I feel that I can handle more with the sword and board. I've been in several fights that a pat or 2 adds themself to my current fight and I have been able to handle them (there was that last time when my pally died but I had 4 on me then and it was the two casters that owned my tail - I got both the melee down before I died). It's the same for the auras with me. The Devotion Aura gives higher armor each level and that's my comfort zone. It takes me a couple of seconds longer to kill something with the sword and board and the Devotion Aura but I'm good with that. I'm not a fast player anyway - my goal is just to survive the fight. I'm a simple woman in that regard. I'll be interested in hearing about your experiences with your playstyle.
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Dranina
Iron Veterans
MotherOwl is Draninas old alias
Posts: 1,063
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Post by Dranina on May 5, 2012 3:22:33 GMT -5
I agree with Katrii. It takes longer time to kill anything with 1H weapon, but I also like to be a bit harder to hit, and the extra time generates more WoG, so that evens it out for me. Humans are way more squishy than Draenei to my big surprise. So this time around I do only green Quests and go for all the protection I can find, even looking through AH for capes and shoulders. With my Draenei pallys I could still do yellow quests in lvl 25-30 range. I can't with a human. I even killed Soggoth without help from ents as the Quest was broken, no horn to be found anywhere - I never did the new content before and just thought It was meant that way. I though, well, I have to do it, it can be done. He had 3,872 HP to my measly ca. 510 (lvl 23). I got him down by using all I had, and was left with 13 HP! I could never have done that with Warecs (my human pally).
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Post by bromli on May 7, 2012 7:41:01 GMT -5
So ladies (and gentlemen) who have gone before ----- At this level (45), I am really struggling with the "what should I do's." A part of me wants to try the quest at 1k Needles so I can finish the area or die trying (literally). Another part of me wants to be more cautious and continue in another area. Gah! So should I just put on my big girl pants and go? I figure I'm probably going to die at some point...and most likely more than once. It's what makes this challenge exciting (and frustrating)...the unknown. What makes you decide to push forward or to hold back and move elsewhere? this, right here, is what makes this challenge hard. someone else called it "chronic loremaster syndrome" i think, and that's so appropriate lol. always remember this is not a loremaster challenge. move on. don't risk it. this will come up again. not saying u can't do this particular quest, but that's not really the point. to get to 85 you need to win thousands of fights, in a row, never losing one. if you have 1000 fights which ur 99% sure of victory, u will die at some point 99.6% of the time. 99.9% sure isn't even good enough imo, since after 1000 times of being 99.9% sure, you will die 63.3% of the time. after 10000 times at 99.9%, you will die 99.55% of the time. i have no idea how many kills one normally gets on the way to 85, and not all fights are the same (most are easy). this just gives an idea of just how safe u really have to be. that said, this is all about the challenge. many of us have placed additional restrictions on ourselves. (i won't eat or drink anything, and if you don't think that makes it harder just try it lol). i have no qualms about ditching a zone, though. 4 failed attempts so far: 1 due to d/c, 1 due to elite pat when not paying attention, 2 due to CLS (chronic loremaster syndrome). i don't intend to repeat mistakes... well, not again anyway. good luck
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Kyrie
Iron Veterans
Posts: 213
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Post by Kyrie on May 7, 2012 10:50:01 GMT -5
this, right here, is what makes this challenge hard. someone else called it "chronic loremaster syndrome" i think, and that's so appropriate lol. always remember this is not a loremaster challenge. move on. don't risk it. this will come up again. not saying u can't do this particular quest, but that's not really the point. to get to 85 you need to win thousands of fights, in a row, never losing one. if you have 1000 fights which ur 99% sure of victory, u will die at some point 99.6% of the time. 99.9% sure isn't even good enough imo, since after 1000 times of being 99.9% sure, you will die 63.3% of the time. after 10000 times at 99.9%, you will die 99.55% of the time. i have no idea how many kills one normally gets on the way to 85, and not all fights are the same (most are easy). this just gives an idea of just how safe u really have to be. that said, this is all about the challenge. many of us have placed additional restrictions on ourselves. (i won't eat or drink anything, and if you don't think that makes it harder just try it lol). i have no qualms about ditching a zone, though. 4 failed attempts so far: 1 due to d/c, 1 due to elite pat when not paying attention, 2 due to CLS (chronic loremaster syndrome). i don't intend to repeat mistakes... well, not again anyway. good luck Lol -- CLS...I like it and so appropriate! I was just so disappointed. I had been planning ahead, and in doing so, counted Thousand Needles as "in the bag" since I had done it NUMEROUS times on other toons. (I did go back and finish quests up to Grimtotem: Chief of Chiefs). Yes, geared toons, I know...I should have thought that one through. So when I hit the brick wall, I was thrown for a loop. I always have to remind myself I want to do this for the challenge for ME...not to prove to anyone else I can. (Yes, I can imagine how not eating or drinking makes it more difficult. Since HFP, I actually don't eat or drink anymore myself. I get on my flying mount and wait looking around for dangers and planning next move in between fights. Mr Reaver is not very forgiving.) Thank you, bromli, for pointing out the need for safety above all. In my mind, I am always planning and trying to manage my mana so I can defend against 2...possibly 3 adds at all times. To add to discussion in previous post, I have been using a 1H/shield since mid-30's. Although the fights last longer, like Dranina mentioned, it does give more time for WoG regeneration BUT I have had a few times I have drained mana to destroy an add quickly to remove myself from a greater danger (like when I saw 3 ravager beasts patting in my general direction). Devo aura for sure...and BoM...I can tell a difference...especially when I pair with Div Plea if I know a fight may be longer than expected...boss fight, adds, etc. I have come to a point where timing of what I do and when is becoming more critical. I am currently testing when I need to Divine Plea to max mana but without wasting any...same w/heals...losing to overheals. I am not the most experienced of players, but I am certainly learning to play better.
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Post by katrii on May 7, 2012 11:16:41 GMT -5
To add to discussion in previous post, I have been using a 1H/shield since mid-30's. Although the fights last longer, like Dranina mentioned, it does give more time for WoG regeneration BUT I have had a few times I have drained mana to destroy an add quickly to remove myself from a greater danger I've done this many a time myself. After watching pats and the path my target takes I will swoop in and burn it down as quick as possible even if it ooms me just to get out quickly. I also play in a couple of zones to try to keep outleveling the mobs. Or I look for demons/ghosts that I can handle pretty well close to level as a paladin - Exorcism does a nice chunk of damage to these type of mobs. Right now orcs seem to be the bane of my existence as they hit hard and take me longer to bring down. I'm still sticking with my sword and board, though. I have already started looking for my one-handed weapons on the AH for the level 70s. I'm thinking my best bet will the be Flamewashed Mace (grey item; 125-234 Damage; 78.2 DPS, 2.30 Speed, level 74) if I can find it. My next choice will be the Rine-Covered Mace (grey item; 103-193 Damage; 64.5 DPS, 2.30 Speed, level 74) and if I can't find these two, I will go with Burnhilder Axe (107-162 Damage, 44.7 DPS, 3.00 Speed, Level 70) which can be purchased from Warsmith Sigfinna at Wildhammer Stronghold in Shadowmoon Valley. I will get the axe regardless at 70 and hope I can find one of the maces by the time I get to 74. The next shield is the Layared Bone Shield (Level 70, 1622 Armor) also purchased at Wildhammer Stronghold from Mari Stonehand. This is actually better than the Level 74 shield which has less armor, go figure!
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Post by sharmarli on May 11, 2012 8:07:40 GMT -5
[quote author=ky board=class thread=321 i have no idea how many kills one normally gets on the way to 85, and not all fights are the same (most are easy). this just gives an idea of just how safe u really have to be. Telzey had just under 10,500 total kills at 83.5 Katrii I might have one or both of those maces in Telzey's bag, they seemed to drop like candy for her along with the rest of the plate set (couldn't get the cloth gear to drop though, go figure). The question is whether I still have them or not, I did sell a bunch of that gear on the AH. I'll try to remember to check this evening.
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Post by katrii on May 11, 2012 12:43:26 GMT -5
Oh, Sharm! That would be wonderful if you still had them! But if not, I appreciate your taking time to look.
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Kyrie
Iron Veterans
Posts: 213
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Post by Kyrie on May 18, 2012 8:25:26 GMT -5
Hoping to be back on my pally today! I'm not sure if it's my realm or others too, but the latency has been really bad, and I keep getting tossed off the server when I'm playing on my main realm. It's made me leery of playing her....so I started some other toons. Maybe I should work on another pally.... Good luck to all as you continue your journey! Congrats, katrii, on the 70's.
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Post by katrii on May 18, 2012 10:54:29 GMT -5
Thanks Kyrie and good luck to you as well. Since Diablo III came out it seems that WoW hasn't been acting quite right for me. I was doing dailies with Kahtraa on the Isle of Quel'Danis (don't remember how to spell it this morning) and I had just finished killing the demons and planting the banner and was heading out of the area when I was kicked off the game and it scared me. When I got to the login screen I saw that they were having login and connection issues and that scared me but I managed to get logged back on pretty quickly and I got her to a safe place. I decided to take some time off from ironman for a few days to let things get ironed out. I should be starting back on her this weekend.
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