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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 13:52:06 GMT -5
This thread is to discuss the changes that will be happening in Legion and how they will affect our challenges and us as challengers.
What We Know: - Level Cap increased to 110 - The new Demon Hunter class starts at Level 98. Might make a separate list for this class. Not sure yet.
Mob Scaling & Levels - Mobs in Legion Expansion zones will scale to the same level as your challenger regardless of gear equipped. - Mobs don't scale up until you are at least half-way to the next level: Level 101.25, mob 100; Level 101.5, mob 101. - Mobs for Legion introduction quests do not seem to scale, however, they are Level 100 and hit HARD. - There will be max level rare mobs roaming throughout Legion zones.
Character Specs - All characters will now have a default spec. - Spec changing is free. - There is no method to track spec changes (not to be confused with talent tree respecs). - Talents are NOT automatically selected for characters.
Artifact Weapon - Artifact Weapons are automatically equipped. - So far no statistic to show Artifact weapon equips. - No access to Alpha/Beta API so there may be no way to track upgrades to the weapon.
Class Order Halls - Allowed to use overall. - NOT allowed to use Champions in world combat.
Mounts - Blizzard confirms there will be a speed boost to ground mounts once the first part of the "Pathfinder" achievement is completed. This will be allowed. Cannot avoid it and most certainly am not going to disallow ground mounts. - Once Flying Mounts are unlocked, we'll be treating it like Warlords Flying Mounts: Not Allowed. - Apparently there's a part three to Pathfinder that may include a speed boost to flying mounts... won't matter as flying won't be allowed.
Transmog - We cannot transmog our equipped white or grey gear as they are not soulbound. - Plan is to grandfather existing challengers to keep whatever transmogged gear they already equipped, however, on Legion launch no green/blue/purple transmog gear will be supported.
Toybox - Many new toys added to Toybox that might be beneficial for a challenger.
List of Default Specs by Class Death Knight: Unholy Druid: Feral Hunter: Beast Mastery Mage: Frost Monk: Windwalker Paladin: Retribution Priest: Discipline Rogue: Assassination Shaman: Elemental Warlock: Affliction Warrior: Arms
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Post by Lyssan on May 13, 2016 8:00:52 GMT -5
So, I've been fortunate to get a Beta invite and I played a bit yesterday as a level 100 discipline priest (the default priest spec). Couple of initial thoughts in no particular order: The bad: - Broken Shore scenario is fun IF you are relatively geared normal toon. For an ironman it is a frustrating experience and extremely dangerous. There are multiple one-shot abilities that did up to 250k damage (two 125k hits in a split second). Hopefully it will be skippable otherwise it shouldn't be tried until higher levels (105+) - Questing in Legion is locked behind the artifact weapon questline which also includes a fairly difficult solo scenario. My priest was able to complete the questline (due to amazing self-heals) but many classes may have problems with it. There is also the question of mob scaling - if questline mobs don't scale after 100 it's going to be manageable. - Artifact weapon is automatically equipped and there is at least one blocker quest that requires it to be equipped. The (relatively) good: - Draenor mob experience has been squished hard BUT quest experience hasn't been. Level 92 quests in Gorgrond still give 7.9k exp which is about half exp of level 100 Legion quests. If this doesn't change it provides a very useful way to get the levels required to tackle Legion. - I didn't feel major differences in power between my ironman unspeced priest and the discipline priest against Draenor mobs (I guess that's good?). Some classes - warrior most likely - will have a different experience. I will provide more feed-back as I play with the expansion. When character copying to Beta is enabled I will try also leveling from level one to see how spec affects the lower level experience. Time permitting, I will also try to stream my play sessions on twitch.tv\lyssanwow
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Post by Lyssan on May 13, 2016 22:26:39 GMT -5
Quick update:
- Beta priest is now level 101 and has 145k HP and triple the damage from level 100. The Draenor quests that I've tried (in Talador) are not very hard, mobs die in seconds and don't pose much threat. - I hate the new name plates - small and washed out
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Post by Lyssan on May 14, 2016 7:54:36 GMT -5
So the good old stat squish will be our savior, build up blue bar, farm your garrison mine and herb garden till 101? Complete warlords quests when squished and pose limited harm? Maybe that will get you to 103/104? Much like the tactic of staying in mists until 96/97. Still worried about the scaling of legion mobs though, maybe we could have some feedback on that potential problem and how or if its giving you some trouble. Thanks for the testing. Just to be clear: there is no mob squish at 101 for Draenor and Pandaria mobs like it is in Cata, Northrend and Outlands. It's just that your HP and damage triples from 100 to 101 from primary stats which makes older content easier. I will test Legion mobs at level when I reach 103-104.
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Post by Lyssan on May 16, 2016 17:24:22 GMT -5
Update for level 102: - the priest has 166k HP at level 102 (an increase of only 21k HP from the previous level). Similarly the damage increase is only about 15% from level 101 (to give you an idea Smite now hits for 7.3k vs 6.3k previously) - the GOOD news is that Legion mobs don't scale to your level until you are half-way through it (between 101 and 102 I was fighting level 100 mobs in the first half level and level 101 mobs in the second half). - the BAD news is that treasures (all that I could find at least) don't give any experience at all. - I also started a marksman hunter (no pet) and the artifact scenario was extremely hard even with level 680 gear. For an iron toon it may be impossible. Will do some more testing and post the results here. Also here are my previous combat test videos at level 101: - against level 100 Legion mobs: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jponXjP1ArQ- against level 98 Nagrand rare mob: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7Gbe_foSM
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 6:41:40 GMT -5
WatcherDev made a post about spec changes. They will now cost nothing.
Have again asked for an option to despec but there aren't any unspec abilities now so I don't think this is going to happen. We can keep asking for it and hopefully they'll do it.
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Post by Lyssan on May 20, 2016 10:49:59 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 15:56:02 GMT -5
We're coming closer to Patch 7.0 being released and I wanted to lay out the plans for what we likely need to do / need feedback on for each of the Legion game design changes that impact us.
Max Level Increase to 110: Nothing major here.
Mob Scaling: Nothing major here really as this applies only to Legion zones. The hint from WatcherDev about applying mob scaling to other zones is interesting and would make leveling post-Legion in sub-100 zones difficult, I'm sure.
Character Specs: As it stands right now, there is no way to opt out of a spec. A spec is assigned to you at Level 1, you can see it by hitting "p" (by default) even though the skill / spec pane is hidden until level 10. The assumption is the default spec for each class will be assigned to Challengers once Patch 7.0 lands.
There is no statistic for me to track spec changes so making a rule around this is impossible to enforce. I'd prefer to not have rules in that we can't enforce (please see the debacle that is Flying in Draenor).
There is still time for Blizzard to come through and give us a stat to change things (heck they could even apply it once Beta closes down and before 7.0 launches like they did with some minor OverWatch tweaks). If Blizzard gives us a way to track spec changes, we can open a different discussion that can cover what we should all do with specs (there are several options here, many of which I think would be neat to do).
Artifact Weapon: As far as we know there is no way to get into Legion zones without equipping the Artifact Weapon. Right now, the Artifact Weapon will behave like any other piece of gear. You can equip it at your leisure and that stats aren't going to really show it.
So this is another thing that I don't believe we're going to be able to track, HOWEVER, I have to assume that Blizzard is going to make SOMETHING open up in the API to let us see the runes/whatever that gets applied to the weapon. In this case what we could say is while the artifact weapon is allowed, upgrading it at all is not and would result in red-flagging.
Transmog: Still no option to apply transmog effects to white or grey gear. I know I said I wanted to remove the transmog exceptions I've already made but grandfathering in characters at this point might be a little more convoluted. At this point I think we're just going to stand pat. There are a few things you can equip but I won't be adding anything else... and once Blizzard allows us to transmog our Iron gear, I can cross that bridge.
Toy Box: The rules right now say that items found in the toy box are allowed. I can't give you specific items, however, I know there are going to be very helpful items being moved into the Toy Box that aren't there right now. For the Toy Box rule, could someone take a whack at doing some proper wording? Unless we just want to open that up too?
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Post by brittleiron on May 24, 2016 16:37:45 GMT -5
We're coming closer to Patch 7.0 being released and I wanted to lay out the plans for what we likely need to do / need feedback on for each of the Legion game design changes that impact us. Max Level Increase to 110:Nothing major here. Mob Scaling:Nothing major here really as this applies only to Legion zones. The hint from WatcherDev about applying mob scaling to other zones is interesting and would make leveling post-Legion in sub-100 zones difficult, I'm sure. Character Specs:As it stands right now, there is no way to opt out of a spec. A spec is assigned to you at Level 1, you can see it by hitting "p" (by default) even though the skill / spec pane is hidden until level 10. The assumption is the default spec for each class will be assigned to Challengers once Patch 7.0 lands. There is no statistic for me to track spec changes so making a rule around this is impossible to enforce. I'd prefer to not have rules in that we can't enforce (please see the debacle that is Flying in Draenor). There is still time for Blizzard to come through and give us a stat to change things (heck they could even apply it once Beta closes down and before 7.0 launches like they did with some minor OverWatch tweaks). If Blizzard gives us a way to track spec changes, we can open a different discussion that can cover what we should all do with specs (there are several options here, many of which I think would be neat to do). Artifact Weapon:As far as we know there is no way to get into Legion zones without equipping the Artifact Weapon. Right now, the Artifact Weapon will behave like any other piece of gear. You can equip it at your leisure and that stats aren't going to really show it. So this is another thing that I don't believe we're going to be able to track, HOWEVER, I have to assume that Blizzard is going to make SOMETHING open up in the API to let us see the runes/whatever that gets applied to the weapon. In this case what we could say is while the artifact weapon is allowed, upgrading it at all is not and would result in red-flagging. Transmog:Still no option to apply transmog effects to white or grey gear. I know I said I wanted to remove the transmog exceptions I've already made but grandfathering in characters at this point might be a little more convoluted. At this point I think we're just going to stand pat. There are a few things you can equip but I won't be adding anything else... and once Blizzard allows us to transmog our Iron gear, I can cross that bridge. Toy Box:The rules right now say that items found in the toy box are allowed. I can't give you specific items, however, I know there are going to be very helpful items being moved into the Toy Box that aren't there right now. For the Toy Box rule, could someone take a whack at doing some proper wording? Unless we just want to open that up too? So long as the artifacts being upgraded isn't required to complete any quest lines that would make sense. As for the toy box it will likely just have to be yet another 'honor system' thing as I can't imagine any way to track those items. Quite a few items that can deal damage or heal have been added to the box for Legion which in my opinion goes against the idea of the toy box to begin with. Blizzard does what Blizzard wants though so we move on.
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Post by iarnaig on May 24, 2016 19:38:50 GMT -5
Artifact Weapon:As far as we know there is no way to get into Legion zones without equipping the Artifact Weapon. Right now, the Artifact Weapon will behave like any other piece of gear. You can equip it at your leisure and that stats aren't going to really show it. So this is another thing that I don't believe we're going to be able to track, HOWEVER, I have to assume that Blizzard is going to make SOMETHING open up in the API to let us see the runes/whatever that gets applied to the weapon. In this case what we could say is while the artifact weapon is allowed, upgrading it at all is not and would result in red-flagging. So long as the artifacts being upgraded isn't required to complete any quest lines that would make sense. In order to unlock Legion questing, you do have to make ONE upgrade to your artifact, as I recall; I'll doublecheck later but my recollection is: you do the questchain to get the artifact (which includes the forced equip), then you're sent to visit the weapon forge to see how to upgrade it, which involves learning the first ability on the weapon (example: Light's Wrath - on this weapon the ability Invoke the Light would be learned). Only after that can you open up Legion questing. However as I'm sure it'll be possible to get information on what's been done to the weapon, any abilities beyond the first one, and any socketed relics, will serve that purpose. Primarily it'll have to be an honour thing, but I see no reason why it'd be any different to people not using green weapons before tracking of equipped items was available - I'm sure the vast majority never did it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 16:48:06 GMT -5
New build was dropped today. Noticed only one small change that doesn't really affect us: the "star" that denotes default spec is now gone.
On creating Level 100 characters these specs were selected by default.
Death Knight: Unholy (no change) Druid: Balance (was FERAL) Hunter: Beast Mastery (no change) Mage: Fire (was FROST) Monk: Windwalker (no change) Paladin: Retribution (no change) Priest: Discipline (no change) Rogue: Assassination (no change) Shaman: Elemental (no change) Warlock: Affliction (no change) Warrior: Arms (no change)
So only two changes to "default" specs... it is possible this is only for testing at level 100 and Feral and Frost will still be defaults at Level 1. Right now you cannot create Level 1 characters nor can you import your Live Realm characters to test with.
Transmog no change :/
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Post by Broken Fox on Jun 6, 2016 2:53:39 GMT -5
At least Warrior will be playable again
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 8:21:38 GMT -5
So long as the artifacts being upgraded isn't required to complete any quest lines that would make sense. In order to unlock Legion questing, you do have to make ONE upgrade to your artifact, as I recall; I'll doublecheck later but my recollection is: you do the questchain to get the artifact (which includes the forced equip), then you're sent to visit the weapon forge to see how to upgrade it, which involves learning the first ability on the weapon (example: Light's Wrath - on this weapon the ability Invoke the Light would be learned). Only after that can you open up Legion questing. However as I'm sure it'll be possible to get information on what's been done to the weapon, any abilities beyond the first one, and any socketed relics, will serve that purpose. Primarily it'll have to be an honour thing, but I see no reason why it'd be any different to people not using green weapons before tracking of equipped items was available - I'm sure the vast majority never did it! iarnaig were you ever able to verify that the artifact required one upgrade? Were you able to get into the Broken Isles without actually upgrading the item at all?
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Post by Lyssan on Jun 6, 2016 9:38:59 GMT -5
To open up questing in Broken Isles you need to do the upgrade quest. However you can jump down from Dalaran even before the artifact scenario and pick up the few optional quests that are available.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 10:21:47 GMT -5
To open up questing in Broken Isles you need to do the upgrade quest. However you can jump down from Dalaran even before the artifact scenario and pick up the few optional quests that are available. So you can skip the artifact and do only a handful of optional quests but are basically locked out of Broken Isles, correct?
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