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Post by Discordiankitty on Jun 5, 2016 0:37:50 GMT -5
Darkmoon Faire has arrived and I want to buy artifacts off the Auction House and turn them in for XP. I feel that I should be allowed to do this, as the FAQ clearly states that you're allowed to use the Auction House, and these artifacts are expensive so I would be sacrificing money that could be spent on other things, plus it's not like you can buy an infinite amount of artifacts and keep turning them in. However, I just want to make 100% sure that this is allowed before I get yellow flagged or something.
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Post by Ironworgen on Jun 5, 2016 0:49:41 GMT -5
Don't know anything about Darkmoon Faire artifacts, but based on your post ...
I would say that if there was ever a reason to disallow the Auction House, this would be it.
Don't know what the official rules say, don't know what the web site tracks, but this just feels very wrong.
Just my opinion mind you.
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Post by Discordiankitty on Jun 5, 2016 1:11:29 GMT -5
Don't know anything about Darkmoon Faire artifacts, but based on your post ... I would say that if there was ever a reason to disallow the Auction House, this would be it. Don't know what the official rules say, don't know what the web site tracks, but this just feels very wrong. Just my opinion mind you. I disagree As I said, the artifacts are expensive. At the moment I have less than a thousand gold. That means I can buy maybe five artifacts and be broke. Making and spending gold without professions is its own challenge. I've made this gold myself, and it's taken time and effort because it means regularly visiting the auction house. The artifacts don't give a huge amount of XP either. You're meant to play this challenge as if it's your only character. By using the gold I've made myself to buy expensive artifacts to make a small amount of relatively safe XP, I feel like I would be doing this without breaking the spirit of the challenge at all. This isn't free XP like an XP buff would be, it comes with a cost of sacrifice and effort. I don't see how this is any worse than doing the Plants vs Zombies quests, making XP safely from exploring, or the bag trick people use at the Darkmoon Faire to make money.
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jingoistic
Cadet
I live the ironman challenge. None of my clothes are magical and I haven't died yet.
Posts: 14
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Post by jingoistic on Jun 5, 2016 3:30:09 GMT -5
You're just getting an item that starts a quest rather than talking to an NPC to start a quest. If you got it normally as a drop would you also not be able to use it? Seems excessive.
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Xaya
Community Moderators
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Xaya on Jun 5, 2016 5:34:49 GMT -5
Interesting question. If the item dropped on your character, you would definitely be allowed to do the quest. If ppl can buy grey weapon/gear on the AH way before they can kill the mobs that drops them, I don't see why you couldn't.
But like Ironworgen said, it feels a little weird
Xayaforsi lvl 100 pandaren hunter (alive) Wyrmrest Accord Xayathe druid lvl 16 night elf druid (alive) Wyrmrest Accord Xayapaci lvl 30 pacifist rogue gnome (alive) Wyrmrest Accord Xayahorde lvl 12 bloodelf rogue (alive) Wyrmrest Accord
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Post by tullibardine on Jun 5, 2016 6:15:44 GMT -5
The important question is, could you have obtained the item by yourself at level. Without breaking the rules?
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Post by Discordiankitty on Jun 5, 2016 6:42:25 GMT -5
Yes, by buying it off the Auction House.
Using the AH is not against the rules.
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Post by Margothon Lord of the Elements on Jun 5, 2016 6:51:45 GMT -5
The problem is everyone has their own interpretation of the "spirit of the challenge", if the coding thats been put in place does not flag you, either because its not against the rules, which using the AH is not, or it has not flagged you because there is no way of tracking it reliably without accosting people to prove their innocence, then just leave it alone, this is a personal challenge. No one is cheating you, they are only cheating themselves.
The problem here comes when certain people treat it like a competition, first this, first that, best of this, best of that, thats when people start looking at untrackable things "spirit of the competition" that grants a big boost to someone. I can imagine when flying came to draenor a few ppl had a good old moan "i dont have flying", or "i did it without flying". I can only imagine flying in Draenor does not give that much of a boost tbh, maybe a boost to time spent (which is the real problem here isnt it), but not risk, in fact i can think of several situations where flying in draenor and picking off certain treasures, you wouldnt have ordinarily have been able to reach, will almost definatly get you killed, there are a few booby trapped treasures. Not to mention dismounting. Fingers start getting pointed, "but that person has something i dont have", or "that person is doing something, in my opinion shouldnt be done but its not against the rules, its my opinion and my version of the rules"
Its a personal challenge with no reward but your own self reward, its when its turned into a competition, wether thats within an ironman guild, or between a few people, thats when the mini rules start coming and the opinions and interpretations come in, as we are all dragged into the competition. This challenge is bigger than one guild, it is bigger than one continent. Its growing and will continue to grow because it is a great challenge within a game we love. This challenge needs to evolve and be more inclusive to people that are outside said groups, some people actually have great ideas and opinions that are for the good of everyone but are shunned and put outside the circle. It needs to evolve with the times, the rules need to be rules for everyone (tracked by code, not the opinion of a few) and the spirit of what you do is up to you.
Buy what you want on the AH Herrena, if you are not in your own heart breaking any rules of your own integrity, then im sure you will feel good when you hit 100, good luck.
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Post by Lyssan on Jun 5, 2016 8:18:39 GMT -5
First, AH should be disallowed. It is outside help however you look at it - these artifacts drop only in battlegrounds and dungeons, your toon would never get them without AH. Second, there is no way to track this so if you feel ok doing it go ahead. Finally, if you really need the defend some way of making experience it's probably not worth doing it. Margothon, isn't it ironic that you say "certain people treat it like a competition" and you are the one that actually won a competition?
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Post by tullibardine on Jun 5, 2016 10:16:04 GMT -5
There is a way to track it, since there is API calls for completed quests.
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Post by Margothon Lord of the Elements on Jun 5, 2016 10:22:58 GMT -5
Margothon, isn't it ironic that you say "certain people treat it like a competition" and you are the one that actually won a competition? It's about as ironic as the song "Ironic" by Alanis Morisette. Not very. It was a contest, the clue was in the title leveling contest. I leveled within the rules set for that contest. I treated it as such, whereas the challenge itself is not a contest, its a personal challenge. It is only a contest between certain people and the imaginary gold medals that are set within the contests they/you make for them/yourself, wether it be within your guild, or between 2 people Turwinkle & Xortz for example. The rules for these said "contests" should not be for everyone, im not in that contest. If flying makes it quicker in Draenor, who am i beating, if i was to fly, im not in a contest with anyone, and again i dare say that flying in draenor brings its own dangers, along with benefits of time lost and getting things done quicker than someone who doesnt have flying. They are your guilds rules or these peoples rules "spirit of competition" not everyones. If Ironrevenge bought a polearm on the AH, so what, within your guild this is probably a no-no, and said person would be looked down upon and clipped round the ear-hole and sent to bed with no supper, and they would know better afterwards, the fact remains its not against the rules, the rules that are automatically flagged, if broken, by a set of code. Its against your ethics and standards, if this was a first account would a person look for stuff on the AH, would a person have access to gold and the AH? Rules and personal ethics are different things, one should not get in the way of the other.
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Post by Ironworgen on Jun 5, 2016 13:16:20 GMT -5
First, AH should be disallowed. It is outside help however you look at it ... Way back then this all started, I didn't have any problem with using the Auction House. Gold wasn't really needed for the Iron Challenge so I'd just sell and hoard. But then people started auctioning gray gear for others to benefit from. Well, OK, I suppose that could drop for me too so why not, as long as it is priced appropriately. I still never used the AH (I don't use ANY gear so what do I need to buy?!), until recently. Ran out of bandages and had no cloth, so I bought some on the AH, and I felt dirty afterwards. I believe an Iron character should be dependent on oneself only. If you bandage after every battle, you will run out of cloth. Buying from the Auction House removes any self-sufficiency, and is not my vision of the Iron Challenge. There are some widely accepted rules that I am against, but this is a personal challenge, and there are as many variations as there are players.
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Post by Discordiankitty on Jun 5, 2016 18:04:08 GMT -5
OK well, I definitely don't agree with the idea that the AH shouldn't be allowed, so I guess this one is down to personal philosophy.
Also, Lyssan, I wouldn't have asked, but with this whole "abnormal levelling speed" thing, when I asked what that was, Stone said if you're uncertain about something, ask. Don't not do it, just ask. As for having to defend a way for gaining XP, I'm not feeling a need to defend it to myself, I just want to be certain it's not against the rules before doing it, and presenting my arguments about why, to me, I don't think it should be. If it is against the rules, I wouldn't do it, but if it's down to personal philosophy then I'm definitely gonna go for it.
Thank you, Margothon, you're right. I'm not here to be the Ironman who levelled a hunter to 100 without a pet, or the Ironman who levelled a naked warrior, or the Ironman who never did dailies, or the Ironman who never uses the AH. Getting to 100 without dying and without breaking any of the official rules is enough for me.
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Post by Lyssan on Jun 5, 2016 18:54:45 GMT -5
Herrena, my point was that the fact that you asked showed you had doubts that it was something allowed. It's perfectly OK to ask when you have doubts, I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. To answer your question directly: you can purchase the artifacts and complete the quests just fine, there will be no flagging.
As far as the "personal challenge" theory I think it's perfectly fine to view it as such as long as someone follows the same rules as the other challengers. Otherwise what's the point of the tracking list? I can very much have a personal challenge where only I know what I have accomplished, no need to put my name on any list, and I can use whatever rules I want. When somebody adds their name to the list they adhere to a set of rules (enforceable and non enforceable).
For instance there is no way we can track buffs from other players however everybody pretty much agree they should not be allowed. If it's a personal challenge, could I use whatever buffs I can get my hands on? I probably could. Would that be frowned upon by other challengers? Most likely, because it's not a personal challenge with rules set by me but a personal challenge with a fixed set of rules that everybody agrees on. There is a difference.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 8:05:58 GMT -5
Buy what you want on the AH Herrena, if you are not in your own heart breaking any rules of your own integrity, then im sure you will feel good when you hit 100, good luck. Please keep in mind that this is his opinion only and his "interpretation" of the rules. Telling you to buy what you want on the AH feels like he's representing an "official" stance on the interpretation of the rules, which he is most certainly not. Asking about it was definitely the right call. If you're not sure, I would err on the side Don't Do It. If you think you can justify it and still be within the spirit of the challenge, then go for it. In situations like this, Tulli sums it up nicely. Would you be able to get those artifacts on your own without getting help? Would the Auction House be your ONLY method of obtaining the item? In cases where the Auction House is the only method, it's a murky issue. Yes, you can use the auction house, however, using it to obtain an item you normally couldn't get *feels* like getting outside assistance. That is why it feels weird. It's okay with one rule but not okay with another. In this case, I would not do it but ultimately it will be up to you.
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