Xaya
Community Moderators
Posts: 1,678
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Post by Xaya on Jul 10, 2016 12:15:27 GMT -5
I deleted a thread. Please try to stay civilised and keep you arguments on the subject of the thread, try not to mixed them up
Xayaforsi lvl 100 pandaren hunter (alive) Wyrmrest Accord Xayamonk lvl 88 night elf monk (alive) Wyrmrest Accord Xayapaci lvl 30 pacifist rogue gnome (alive) Wyrmrest Accord Xayahorde lvl 13 bloodelf rogue (alive) Wyrmrest Accord
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Post by Ironworgen on Jul 10, 2016 13:04:55 GMT -5
2016/07/10 11:05 UTC-8
I don't know what thread you are referring to, but seeing that in the past couple of days, I have had multiple threads/posts of mine deleted, I'm very angry about that.
I realize that not everyone agrees with my approach to the challenge, but outright censorship and deletion is NOT acceptable.
Disagree with me all you want, but differing points of view and discussion are never a bad thing. I don't attack, insult, or harass others, and like to think that my posts are on point, well thought out, and reasonably expressed.
This could be just what is needed to encourage me to leave the community and do my challenge by myself.
And wouldn't be surprised if this is deleted shortly either.
Edit by Xayaqc : it was the censorship thread, and I also removed the quote because I thought they were only fanning the flames
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Post by iarnaig on Jul 10, 2016 13:29:56 GMT -5
I think the censorship is starting to cause more problems than it solves - I've now had several reasonable, polite, not insulting anyone and not repetitive posts removed, and I've gone from being calm and trying to have a sensible discussion to getting rather ticked off about it. I have no objection to removal of insulting posts or closing of a circular argument that is never going to end, but when that is NOT the case, removing posts will only serve to inflame things as you'll end up with a lot of people who were previously perfectly calm getting annoyed.
Given my time to play ironman has been very limited of late (I don't dare play it unless I have a decent chunk of time, as logging off in unsafe spots is pretty silly!), if the community's going to go down the road of excessive censorship I may have to just give up on it, a shame, as I very much enjoy reading this forum and giving tips on the areas I know, but this is no longer a good community if perfectly reasonable posts get deleted.
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Post by Ironworgen on Jul 10, 2016 13:34:47 GMT -5
... Edit by Xayaqc : it was the censorship thread, and I also removed the quote because I thought they were only fanning the flames The censorship post was to bring the issue to light since prior to that a number of my other posts had been deleted. And it appears I am not the only one.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2016 14:14:35 GMT -5
I think the censorship is starting to cause more problems than it solves - I've now had several reasonable, polite, not insulting anyone and not repetitive posts removed, and I've gone from being calm and trying to have a sensible discussion to getting rather ticked off about it. I have no objection to removal of insulting posts or closing of a circular argument that is never going to end, but when that is NOT the case, removing posts will only serve to inflame things as you'll end up with a lot of people who were previously perfectly calm getting annoyed. Given my time to play ironman has been very limited of late (I don't dare play it unless I have a decent chunk of time, as logging off in unsafe spots is pretty silly!), if the community's going to go down the road of excessive censorship I may have to just give up on it, a shame, as I very much enjoy reading this forum and giving tips on the areas I know, but this is no longer a good community if perfectly reasonable posts get deleted. I deleted comments where folks continually repeat their arguments over and over and over and over. Zero progress. On the other side, I deleted comments where there was inflammatory or intentionally provocative material. Both add Zero. Deleting the comments is not ideal, I agree; neither is continuing the nonsense when folks were warned. I was interested in opinions on critical issues, not rehashing the same arguments over and over, especially if you didn't agree. I don't make the rules, yes, but I will maintain them and I will make judgment calls when I feel the community is wrong, even if I happen to be the only one disagreeing. It doesn't / won't happen often but it is going to happen. Don't worry about threatening to leave. The CMs will moderate where they feel it's needed, I won't be. I already responded that I was going to be gone for awhile. I definitely need a break from all of this. I got a notification that I was quoted and returned (my mistake); funny enough it was removed. I'll be turning those off too. I will continue to update the rules and test out in Legion and make the calls I think need making based on what I think the community will desire and what is in the spirit of the challenge. If you need to reach out to me you know where to find me.
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Post by umabbas on Jul 11, 2016 4:38:10 GMT -5
First an foremost, as a member: We should all just relax. I recall this was a place of niceness and helpfulness, although the community has grown since. Let's try to keep it nice and clean, and leave excessive anger at home, no matter what have transgressed in the past few days.
As an admin of (another) forum: There's no such thing as an *excessive censorship* when it comes down to keeping the community civil and behaved. It's often an ungrateful job, as an admin of a smaller forum you care for the technical site of the community, as well as the social aspect, and balancing it when it comes to intentional trolls, accidental arguments or community in disarray is not easy. There's no community on internet that doesn't exercise some level of censorship, believe me. All do. Most just don't admit it to its members. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise. If you leave things without warnings (that were issued here before the removal of some posts) and without solving it, the community tears itself apart very soon. It'd be a shame to see that happen here.
So let's just put this behind us, calm ourselves, and prepare for what is coming. One of the parts of the iron-man spirit is adapting to new challenges, and those will be aplenty with the new patch and expansion.
We can do it, guys and gals.
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Post by Lyssan on Jul 12, 2016 7:51:25 GMT -5
This recent tendency to remove posts/threads we dont agree with leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Stone, as much as I appreciate all you do for this community I feel like you are in the wrong here. There was no need for this "my way or the highway" attitude. I think the Ironman community is pretty thoughtful and mature to handle different ideas without problems. Yes, I am aware there is some level of censorship everywhere but, in my opinion, there was nothing that warranted removal in those threads. And then the thread opened to express concerns about censorship is deleted, proving that those concerns are real. Sigh.
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Post by brittleiron on Jul 12, 2016 7:59:27 GMT -5
When people go from 'this is my opinion' and leave it at that to 'I'm right and this is why' repeatedly beating a dead horse I can understand why Stone gets tired of it.
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Post by Lyssan on Jul 12, 2016 8:08:33 GMT -5
When people go from 'this is my opinion' and leave it at that to 'I'm right and this is why' repeatedly beating a dead horse I can understand why Stone gets tired of it. Then lock the thread, put up a poll and let people choose. Why selective post removal?
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Post by ironmanpaff on Jul 12, 2016 8:19:37 GMT -5
Well for a game this sure at times has more drama than the soap operas my wife watches, Stone this is your show, call it loss due to site maintains next time. I agree with Brittleiron that "beating a dead horse" gets old quick. People look for significance from things when their lives in the real world is in chaos, i know i do... i had a few smart arse thoughts about hunters yesterday because i am seeing that no mater how hard i try i wont be on the " Front Page " because ten thousand hunters (well 136) will be there before me. So even i am looking for significance in a world of people wanting to be right and so on.... We have to come back to the fact this is just a game... we also need to understand that things change and are out of our control ... having an opinion about how something "should" be and being able to do something about it are two different things... the game is the game.... real life is real life.... please remember and i should as well... those are two different parts of our lives.. The spill over occurs when emotion is added.. just because you can tare? (Tear, torn , ) ,<hmmm> someone down does not mean you should.. I would like to see you folks use all this wonderful energy and do something productive, not destructive, help someone in real life, help someone in the game...(within the rules)... figure out ways to do a little better each day <steps down from soap box and returns to cave>
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Post by Margothon Lord of the Elements on Jul 12, 2016 8:25:10 GMT -5
Because most people are delicate little things and need to be protected from opinionated, argumentative oiks like me, who have a strong opinion, but when that opinion does not go with the common narrative and rubs against the grain it is censored, 75% of my posts are censored, yet time and time again all i do is try to make things better for every ironman, not just the old timers, as i am new to this, and i have a fresh eyes to see the flaws, i at least play devils advocate.
It was me who stood up for Flying in Draenor being put in the rules, and guess what it happened, i was the one that suggested put all Draenor specific rules in one section, guess what couple of days later there it is clear to see. Do you see my post suggesting this? Nope.
I have learnt in life the right opinion is not always the most popular, the most popular opinion is not always the right one. This is when censorship is used incorrectly.
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Dranina
Iron Veterans
MotherOwl is Draninas old alias
Posts: 1,063
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Post by Dranina on Jul 12, 2016 8:30:41 GMT -5
When people go from 'this is my opinion' and leave it at that to 'I'm right and this is why' repeatedly beating a dead horse I can understand why Stone gets tired of it. Then lock the thread, put up a poll and let people choose. Why selective post removal? I could not agree more. I used to pop by several times a day to see who did what and to shed a tear for those who died. Theos eternal discussions about who said what and who removed what in which thread is about to scare me off. Do keep the threads, lock tthem if they get overlong and repetetive. We could just stop reading about the "dead horses" and leaving the one or two horse bashers bash along. That's at least my solution and had ever been. (Eg. I don't ever read threads about DK's as I never got one out of the starter zone). I must say that in my opinipon deleting posts and even whole threads does nothing but cause bad feelings.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2016 9:12:26 GMT -5
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Post by Anaralah on Jul 12, 2016 15:21:12 GMT -5
Just for the record so it's not blamed on external censorship, if anyone notices that two of my past opinion comments have been removed: I removed them myself yesterday when I woke up to find that in the censorship thread, a fellow challenger accused myself and others of attacking them with "abuse" in a thread they had created, requesting "argumentative opinionated s****" like myself be censored if they were.
I wanted to put that out there in case anyone thinks my two comments in that thread were externally deleted and blame Stone. I did it myself because I'm not fond of unnecessary drama and being insulted childishly. Peace
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Post by gnumbers on Jul 13, 2016 5:04:26 GMT -5
Because most people are delicate little things and need to be protected from opinionated, argumentative oiks like me, who have a strong opinion, but when that opinion does not go with the common narrative and rubs against the grain it is censored, 75% of my posts are censored, yet time and time again all i do is try to make things better for every ironman, not just the old timers, as i am new to this, and i have a fresh eyes to see the flaws, i at least play devils advocate. You use insults ("most people are delicate little things") that, deliberately or not, are targeted at the majority of the posters here. You also lavish praise on yourself ("yet time and time again all i do is try to make things better for every ironman"). Doing those things make you sound like a narcissistic jerk. I don't know if you're trying to be a jerk or not; you write like someone who either learned English as a second language or just hated English class. (On one hand, you're familiar with idioms like "devil's advocate" and British slang like "oik". On the other hand, you use run-on sentences constantly.) That makes it difficult to tell if you're trying to be abrasive or if you just don't understand social conventions.
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