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Post by maarius81 on Dec 22, 2017 19:28:45 GMT -5
thought about crafting:
-) once you step into a new zone, you need to scout it... -) this means you explore it and while you do this you collect materials for your main crafting profession (ores, leather, cloth) -) get x pieces of material to unlock riding in that zone -) OPTIONAL: explore the whole zone
-) having done this you are allowed to start questing in this zone -) you now have enough material to get crafting-skillpoints
I'm not sure if forcing gathering on you would be a fun way to play. It would unlock riding though - which was unlocked by cloth before. You'd also learn to know the zone a bit better since you play without player-arrow for your worldmap.
I'll have to try this a few times. I don't quite know yet if this is fun.
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Post by Brynazul on Dec 22, 2017 19:34:51 GMT -5
Maybe get rid of the requirement of having to have a crafting token to make an item? Gathering materials to craft an item could be seen as an effort in itself. Or Keep the crafting token, but make it so crafted items don't cost an extra life?
Edit: I hadn't seen your other post before I posted this. So you would basically have to get the zone exploration achievement before getting quests or being able to use a ground mount in the zone? Hmm. While you could RP this by saying you had to scout the zone to create a map for yourself first, I don't know if I'd want to do this.
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 22, 2017 19:53:18 GMT -5
Maybe get rid of the requirement of having to have a crafting token to make an item? Gathering materials to craft an item could be seen as an effort in itself. Or Keep the crafting token, but make it so crafted items don't cost an extra life? Edit: I hadn't seen your other post before I posted this. So you would basically have to get the zone exploration achievement before getting quests or being able to use a ground mount in the zone? Hmm. While you could RP this by saying you had to scout the zone to create a map for yourself first, I don't know if I'd want to do this. Crafting token make BoE-drops which you can't use valuable, but I'll think about this. Crafting token already don't cost an extra life since they're BoE items. Only soulbound items take a part of your soul. Hm yeah, having to explore the whole zone first or forcing you to gather seems a bit in the wrong direction... hmmm a though nut to crack. Maybe the incentive to craft is already there since BoE drops are rare and 1 of 8 soulbounds leaves you item-starved as well.
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Post by Brynazul on Dec 22, 2017 20:06:42 GMT -5
I was definitely reading that wrong. For some reason I thought the Green BoE items were lumped in with the quest items, which counted toward your 8 items. I was thinking that only the Blue BoE items could be crafting tokens. I kept wondering just how long it would take to be able to craft an item. It makes much more sense now. Yeah, I'd say keep the Crafting Tokens. If there still aren't enough BoE items received, maybe add that you can trade a certain amount of crafting materials for a Crafting Token?
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 23, 2017 6:09:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd say keep the Crafting Tokens. If there still aren't enough BoE items received, maybe add that you can trade a certain amount of crafting materials for a Crafting Token? I wonder if there's an other way to get BoEs. Sometimes vendors sell green items, those are BoE as well, aren't they? I maybe could get rid of the itemlevel restrictions for crafting tokens, would also make it less complicated.
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Post by Brynazul on Dec 23, 2017 11:09:12 GMT -5
Yeah, there are quite a few vendors that sell BoE items, I'd forgotten about that. That would make it so you could travel around and look for an appropriate slot.
How do those items work on the PTR with scaled leveling? Are they still the same iLevel? Or do they scale when you buy them?
I would think if they don't scale, then you would need to keep the iLevel requirements, or something similar. You could get to know a few NPCs to target specific slots by simply buying low level items. Or maybe go by required level to equip? And then just make it so the crafting token vendor BoEs are within a certain range of your character level? Like 5 before and after. So if you were level 30, you could buy crafting token vendor BoEs with required levels of 25 to 35.
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 24, 2017 6:25:00 GMT -5
I'm currently testing the core features of the challenge with a Pandaren Shaman. Without exra lives though, only one life.
I've leveled him to level 17 the last hours and it's fun so far. I play with the alternative death rule (destroy all your green and blue items, be left only with white/grey ones like ironman). I died twice since, it's interesting since you lose your hard earned good items and the challenge becomes harder again.
I'm leveling a leatherworker and enchanted my gear with the leather patches. I haven't had a BoE crafting token drop yet, but I get material frequently through killing mobs which feels fine.
Two vendors in Silverpine Forest offer limited BoE items (2 pieces) which helped me get my first crafting token, so I could craft an item a bit earlier, which felt really rewarding. The vendor doesn't offer me the piece a second time, so that's balanced.
Edit: hm, he offeres the item again after a certain amount of time. Hmmm
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 24, 2017 6:45:40 GMT -5
I really like the alternative death rule, I could combine the 2 original rules into one somehow. It feels great having to continue playing as an ironman as penalty for death, having you to start collecting green gear from the ground up again. It makes the game more challenging. possible change: -) instead of only losing one extra life on death, you also lose all your equipped green and blue gear. You're free to euqip any BoE grey/white gear in your inventory after your resurrection. to compensate for that slower gearing a further change could be done: -) you choose 1 out of 8 soulbound items and delete the rest. -) you choose 1 out of 6 soulbound items and delete the rest. Edit: Pandaren experience update: I just fought my first silver mob, Berard the Moon Crazed. I was level 18 with 2 green pieces (I died recently), and the rare was level 20. I was on the edge of my seat, having to selfheal me constantly between getting damage in... whoooha. I defeated him in a close battle and damn, I was happy about the success. Edit2 - possible change: Since there's a huge penalty for dying now, besides just losing one extra life, I'll probably get rid of the money-loss rule. -) you lose all the money on you (bring your money to your 1man-guild bank to safe it) no need for a 1man guild bank anymore -) send half of your money in your bank to a low level player
-) send all of your money in your inventory to a low level player
I come back to this rule later, when I experienced higher money rewards from quests. Edit3: I just noticed that with the required destruction of greens/blues after a death, cooking became pretty valuable again. Especially for Pandaren - who gain 100% bonus stats from food. Edit4:
The white gear vendor also became relevant again, since some slots might be empty, after your death and the deletion of green/blue items.
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 24, 2017 8:10:21 GMT -5
Merry Christmas everyone!
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 24, 2017 20:05:39 GMT -5
update Pandaren experience:
I died a few times in Silverpine Forest, most of the time it was my own fault (it was probably always my own fault). The elites in the south of Silverpine Forest are brutal when you have only a few pieces of green gear. I had to capture Lorna Crowley, which was surrounded by a camp of elite worgen which would eat me for breakfast. In all my normal runs I just kill all mobs, but I had to improvise. I climbed on the mountain next to the camp and sneaked in from behind.
Now I had to face Lorna... and damn she hit hard. I had to use my slowing totem to escape her from melee while dancing around her tent, always close to the other worgen patrolling the area. My npc followers slowly got her down and when I interfered now and then I had to be ready to run again. I did it... and felt like I had just slapped Arthas in the face. I'm already in love with this lose-all-green/blue-items rule, it gets hard like ironman, but I can work my way out of it and become stronger... until I do something stupid again.
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Post by Brynazul on Dec 24, 2017 21:22:30 GMT -5
That's awesome. It sounds like you've found a good balance.
Yeah, getting to Lorna is interesting even on live servers. If I remember that zone correctly, the mobs are packed pretty tight together. Not too bad on live, but with the scaling changes...
Is there a need to introduce restrictions on the vendor bought BoEs for Crafting Tokens? You mentioned finding some items that let you craft something. Are you just going by what vendors you happen to come across? Or do you think it'll get to a point where you'll look up vendors for a specific crafted slot? I would think with the new green/blue gear destroy at death, crafting gear could end up being a bigger priority.
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 25, 2017 4:08:10 GMT -5
Good question. I think the vendor BoEs are a nice joker in the challenge, you're right though that it could be kind of exploited. I'd add the restriction, that you can only buy limited stuff from vendors when they are in the zone you're doing your main questing. I don't want people to backtrack to all the other vendors they've found sometime in the past so that the whole crafting token system gets too trivial.
It seems that the item scales to your level, I'm not too sure about that though.
Now what do I do about main cities, without making the system too complicated...? -) no buying from main cities -) you are allowed to buy it from main cities... it's ok since it's a long way from your questing area to the city. (restrict flight point travelling??)
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another thing that bugs me a bit... Should I keep the limitation that riding is only unlocked when having enough cloth/materials from a zone? Is this fun?
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 25, 2017 5:17:29 GMT -5
update Pandaren experience, Monday
It seems the "1-from-6-rule" works fine for me.
The "delete-greens/blues-on-death" as well, but a small thing: I had a few BoE-leftovers still in my inventory and euqipped those after deleting my equipped greens after I died. It gave me a jumpstart. I'm not sure if hoarding items in your inventory in case of sudden death is something I want to promote.
perhaps: -) do not equip crafting token or -) also delete any greens/blue BoEs in your inventory you could use (not the crafting token)
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Post by Brynazul on Dec 25, 2017 14:22:32 GMT -5
You might have to make it deleting all green/blue BoEs in your inventory (minus the crafting token). This would also reset the "1-from-6-rule". But this also depends on how much you want a death to setback the player.
Do you find when you get a crafting token, that you typically have the required materials to craft it right away? If there is a shortage of materials, then I would say there probably doesn't need to be a main city restriction, as you'd have to travel there, have the money for the item, and then also have to then gather enough materials. If you find you've always got enough, then possibly make a rule that only allows one main city vendor bought BoE per level? (I know this has issues at higher levels though.)
I'm curious the amount of cloth and/or materials that you've set for yourself to unlock riding in a zone? And once you collect those materials, what do you do with them? Can you still use them to craft items? Do you sell them to a vendor or on the AH Are they paid as tribute to the mount trainer?
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Post by maarius81 on Dec 25, 2017 16:36:07 GMT -5
You might have to make it deleting all green/blue BoEs in your inventory (minus the crafting token). This would also reset the "1-from-6-rule". But this also depends on how much you want a death to setback the player. It doesn't interfere with the "1-from-6-rule" since it's about soulbound items only. The rules state that you can equip any BoE item at any time. You'd probably choose to wear class-appropriate armor only, but the rules aren't against wearing lighter armor (warrior -> leather). The BoEs you don't use count as crafting token. Death doesn't delete soulbounds in your bag so far, just the ones you're wearing. material availabilityAs leatherworker I would actually have quite a bit of leather, but I still have a very low skill on leatherworking which denies me any useful items so far. It feels like I have to go out of my way and grind the mobs long enough to get to the useful items... but even ironman mode for a short time wasn't motivating enough for me to do it. I could defeat questmobs with white gear so far, it might change at higher levels. This I have to test. At lower levels crafting isn't needed at all. BUT since the rules state that I am only allowed to wear gear I can see on my character (no rings, trinkets, amulets), it might become quite challenging once I'm in the levelrange where those items become questrewards. Maybe then I want to utilize crafting more. Thinking about the vendor restrictions... I think I don't need to give it any restriction. First, it's a nice reward for players who do the journey to the city and remember those places,... second, BoE items for specific slots sometimes drop quite rarely... and last but not least: it's easier to implement as rule. Keeping it relatively simple is one of the priorities. I know, there's quite a few rules already, but I'm working on streamlining it as it makes sense. RidingI generally go for 30-40 cloth and then use it for whatever it's needed. Having it in my inventory unlocks riding. I think it's not one of my best ideas, but I wanted something to work towards to in a zone, and riding is a nice reward. It doesn't make sense to get riding just a moment before I finish the zone, ideally it should be quite in the middle of the zonequests. As a blacksmith you usually have no use for cloth and just sell it in the auction house. Since auctions aren't allowed, you'd be happy to get cloth when there's a purpose for it.
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