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Post by Ironworgen on Jun 22, 2015 14:08:05 GMT -5
I noticed that the same character (Crystaltear) sits atop both the Blood Thirsty list and the Pacifist list, even though they are opposite ends of the spectrum.
Crystaltear is flagged on both lists, but it seems odd that this would even be possible. Shouldn't there be something to disqualify a character and remove it from a list it doesn't belong on?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 14:46:20 GMT -5
The person added their toon to all the lists and were green-flagged using the outdated rules from the old site. Once we updated the rules with the new site, they were correctly red-flagged.
I *can* remove characters from the lists but that doesn't prevent someone (anyone) from re-adding. I did add new code to check for a red flag first before saving the character to the list, so new characters can't be added if they're already red-flagged (in Crystaltear's case, the toon couldn't be re-added until they were green-flagged). The change doesn't apply to legacy red-flags.
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Post by iarnaig on Jun 22, 2015 15:29:05 GMT -5
It might be nice to have a one-off cleanup of the real outliers on both of those lists: pacifists with 100+ kills and bloodthirstys with 0 both seem to be incompatible with the concept of those challenges, and the pacifist list in particular has several which are clearly just mistakes; people who are on the regular ironman list and obviously killing stuff. Crystaltear on the pacifist list, well, fair enough; I don't agree with pet battling but can't deny he/she did reach 90 without killing stuff (2 kills later on, it seems), so that one's open for debate, but the several hundred kill people could probably use a prune
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 22:02:12 GMT -5
yeah... I could go through some of them... but it's just a matter of time.
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Post by fiveiron on Jul 9, 2015 15:54:34 GMT -5
I got pruned, and cannot currently re-add IrongrinderK - US Wyrmrest Accord.
I did not give in to killing non-rares as I did with previous BT leaders starting at about 43-45, and don't plan to until 'K' reaches level 61. He's killed nothing but rares since level 4, and now is 51. His kill stat reflects this, perpetuating the red flag that prevents relisting. I can re-add him once he's about 62 or 63, and his kills have caught up to your expectations of 'normal'.
He could always add to the normal IMC ladder, but he does not belong there either. (Dear reader, please do not add my characters for me either)
I started the grinder challenge myself. Now I'm removed from it illegitimately in my mind for being more efficient than expected. I'm fairly upset. What's minimum kill per level supposed to prove anyway?
At least I just bought WoD two days ago. I'll play some normal cheeseball toons up for a while. Maybe I'll see you in a couple months.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 17:57:57 GMT -5
Don't be upset, we can fix it. Not sure why folks (not just you) get all up-in-arms.... a simple message like this can get me to go fix stuff or at least have a look at it.
I'm going to have a look at your character and check out the kills to see what it looks like compared to the regular / expected streams.
The reason why I had added a minimum number of kills was more to ensure folks are out there killing more than doing quests... Yes, we have a limit on the number of quests so maybe not having a kill requirement is okay? Are there are any drawbacks to not having a kill requirement? I think not having a kill requirement would mean that you (not YOU, per se, but any toon) could group up and having someone kill with them. Maybe I need to dial down the formula a bit? I'll have a look at it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 18:16:32 GMT -5
Holy crud... 566 kills??!? That's definitely an achievement for sure. Is the XP from rares that much higher?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 18:22:48 GMT -5
Actually I did find a bug in the minimum kill requirements but fixing it made the the requirements go right through the roof. I'm going to dial down the kill requirements enough that you should be able to relist your toon as only killing rares is most definitely an acceptable way of leveling for that challenge.
I'm keeping the 100 kill requirement for Level 10 but the formula from there on out is not going to be as steep as it was before.
The code should be live so you can relist when you want.
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Post by 'Ster on Jul 9, 2015 18:28:46 GMT -5
I was chatting in the online chat with Fiveiron, I mentioned how it is a chase for you Stone to find/fix/tune some of these algorithms. Thanks for the speedy looking into !
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 18:35:36 GMT -5
no worries. I was definitely targeting specific folks... in fact, I like that there was another way to do the challenge still within the spirit of it.
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Post by fiveiron on Jul 9, 2015 18:38:06 GMT -5
Thanks for looking into it so quickly Stone!
Yeah, the exp from rares is equal to at least 10 mobs, depending on level and comparison. I've refined density through repetition of finding more rares as I go. I didn't start grinders like that, but learned to series them through respawns in different zones, on different cross-realm servers, with similar timers.
L & M still sit at the oldest lvl 10 BT's, and share the same server cluster. They are most progressed in rare finding and pacing, and M is still on track for lowest /played time to 20 record by using L as a scout, if I ever finish that.
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Post by fiveiron on Jul 10, 2015 8:08:55 GMT -5
As alternative to minimum kills for checking a player has done their own dirty work: * a relative comparison (that's statistically vague so far) between killing blows vs either total kills or total kills that gain exp.
It would need some testing. Maybe critter slayers could throw it out of true. We use that one as a human reasoning comparison, but it may be hard to codify.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2015 8:35:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I do already have a Killing Blow % check for both Blood Thirsty and the Iron Man challenge. BT % requirement is higher although I can't tell you exactly what it is off the top of my head.
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Post by fiveiron on Nov 26, 2015 15:00:37 GMT -5
Epilogue: Yesterday, Irongrinderk finally hit level 60, with merely 717 kills that gain exp. They were nearly all rares, except for about 6% of those to get to level 4, and a slim handful of incidental normal kills needed to reach a rare. He's also a troll, so the +20% exp for beasts helped a lot for a majority of rares which I targeted.
I think this is very low indeed, and a successful proof-of-concept to me. This one toon's experiment in efficiency ends here, as I'm about to ding 61 from just exploring, thus no kills were added to get to 61. After that, I'll begin the more typical grind of normal mobs in Outland and beyond.
I still prefer hitting rares with low-to-mid level BT's, but I'm not trying to minimize kills so much anymore. What I intended to prove has been demonstrated. (They ate Sir Robin's minstrels, and there was much rejoicing.) Best luck to all.
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