[Pacifist Challenge] One kill?

[Lyssan]

Be careful with the "extinguish these" quests - some fires are kills too.

[Xeraphia]

Well that's discouraging... but thanks anyway. I'll keep plowing through with my 24 for now, even if she's disqualified. I don't see the point rolling a new toon =/

[tanee]

On a non-pacifist, I ran through some pirates going into Booty Bay. I didn't tag them, but only aggroed them. The BB guards killed them, and I got rep. I'm assuming if I got rep, I also got a kill credit.

[LokivTokiv]

Apr 2, 2016 0:59:08 GMT -5 tanee said:

On a non-pacifist, I ran through some pirates going into Booty Bay. I didn't tag them, but only aggroed them. The BB guards killed them, and I got rep. I'm assuming if I got rep, I also got a kill credit.

From my experience, you won´t get a kill credit if a guard kills an mob that you have aggroed since this have happened a couple of times during my run.
I didn´t do any damage to them so I can´t vogue if you don´t get a kill count then.

Booty Bay guards have killed a few pirates when I did my herb/ore farm route there, got the rep also but no kill count thankfully.
Remember that a guard outside Razorhill ran and killed a scorpid that was chasing me, directly checked my kill count afterwards and no kill credit was given to me.

[ironissa]

Just curious, but what abilities are you using? I don't play a rogue outside my paci so I'm not completely familiar with what each ability does, but I perhaps CC abilities like 'Gouge' might tag a mob without doing damage? Personally I only keep Stealth, Shadowmeld, Evasion, Sap, Distract, and Sprint on my bars and that's it (at level 30 at least).

Edit: Sorry I assume you're playing a rogue? I don't think it was said.

[Xeraphia]

(I'm not sure if you were asking me or someone else, but) I play a Druid, and I have no offensive/CC abilities at all on my bars

[brittleiron]

We may need to rethink the 1 kill is too many rule.... with the "shared" kills in WoD clearly getting 100 may be extremely difficult as someone killing nearby without your knowledge could flag you. This apparently has happened to all of our 90+ pacifist challengers (Noharm for sure and Tokiv/Tanareet maybe (comfirm/deny you two?). The radius on the shared kills seems rather large from what I understand.

Just a thought

Edit: I know the rule makes sense pre-90 but getting flagged by the "shared" kills goes way beyond the normal Ironman trouble of D/C deaths and dying to bugs. Damn shame to lose that much time/effort to something like this.

[Lyssan]

I disagree. If we remove this rule the pacifist challenge becomes trivial - it is already easy enough with archaeology after 20. As long as it's not outright impossible - and I dont think it is - we should strive to get to 100 with the rule in place.

[fiveiron]

Though it was a damn shame indeed, I am also in favor of keeping the 1-kill rule.

The shared kills do not apply to every mob in WoD, but as a GM explained for me, "all uniquely named quest mobs and most named rares." Even if there's a large radius, these mobs are mostly easy to notice and avoid.

The sorta tricky thing about the mob that flagged Noharm was that it isn't normally present, but spawns when a player triggers quest script. I'd been in that place before with only the two non-agro NPCs present.

Tanareet, AFAIK, was flagged on Timeless Isle from a statue clicked on that radiated AOE damage and killed a critter.
Tokiv hasn't said, and apparently deleted, meaning we can't analyze armory record. I was curious if he also made it into WoD, which would be shown by explore achieve progress.

[Xeraphia]

Apr 6, 2016 9:53:38 GMT -5 Lyssan said:

I disagree. If we remove this rule the pacifist challenge becomes trivial

It becomes trivial only if you remove the no-kill rule entirely, which is not the point at all. But I'm assuming it is doable to set up a script that compares damage done or killing blows to kills and flags a toon based on that (Kinda what the Bloodthirsty script does). That would prevent people from cheating the no-kill rule, and at the same time allow those who get flagged because they were picking herbs and then Joe's pet there decided to kill a murloc, to actually continue the challenge (Again, I'm assuming. I have no idea if it really is possible).

It would not change the difficulty of the Pacifist Challenge, it would not make it easier, it would not cut us some slack -but it would at least put our failure into our own hands.

The shared kills do not apply to every mob in WoD, but as a GM explained for me, "all uniquely named quest mobs and most named rares." Even if there's a large radius, these mobs are mostly easy to notice and avoid.

Whoa... Thanks for the tip! I had no idea (for when I get there )

[Lyssan]

Actually it would make it easier. The difficulty in the pacifist challenge is exactly this: to get to 100 without killing anything. By allowing 1, 2 or more kills the challenge would be diminished. I see it the same as not counting the deaths due to game bugs in the regular challenge. Yes they are annoying especially at high level but a death is a death - or in the pacifist case a kill is a kill.

[brittleiron]

If the rules have to be set in stone with no wiggle room then why do we allow normal irons to accidentally equip a green item? Unfortunate accident? Yes.... but too bad rules are rules, watch what you are doing next time. Easy enough to avoid by just selling only to stationary vendors after all right?

Edit: My point being if we are going to have rules then they should be applied equally. Allowing one green item equipped "accidentally" gives regular irons a mulligan that pacifists don't get the luxury of... not to mention the serious issue of potential abuse. Weapon damage is a nice boost to dps and bonus stats from a weapon a lovely boost to overall stats... someone could easily keep "accidentally" equipping new and better weapons which would still just show as 1 item slot equipped with a magical item. Stone knows full well from doing some research that folks are constantly finding ways to get around the rules... sometimes even bragging about it in youtube videos.

[ambrozyn]

I have had two of my irons in Draenor. Tanareet, as was mentioned, got flagged at 92 when she went back to Pandaria and completed a quest on the Timeless Isle. Arkinaya got killed at 92 by a mob while in Draenor. I did not experience any issues with any "shared" kills while there, but will definitely be extremely careful when my next iron gets there. For the record, I am in full agreement with the "no kill" rule remaining in place. If it is possible to lobby Blizzard to fix this issue, that would be my preference.

[Lyssan]

Brittle, equipping a green item is not the same as having a kill as a pacifist. And, as far as I know, the rule applies equally to all challengers including pacifists.
As I said, the entire difficuly as paci is to do it without kills. In my opinion this is the one rule that should not be changed - unless and until it is proven to be impossible.

[Xeraphia]

Apr 6, 2016 18:34:31 GMT -5 Lyssan said:

Actually it would make it easier. The difficulty in the pacifist challenge is exactly this: to get to 100 without killing anything. By allowing 1, 2 or more kills the challenge would be diminished.

Completely agreed -only in this case, we are *not* making a kill. Not 1, not 2, not any. But our stats get messed up and say we do, even though those very same stats prove that it is completely impossible that we did -by showing blank damage and killing blows.

I am not asking to allow Pacifists to make kills. I am asking for a way to take into account the fact that although we make no kill, the game says we do and we get disqualified automatically.

If it is possible to lobby Blizzard to fix this issue, that would be my preference.

Now, see, that... THAT would be the ideal solution, hands down.