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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2016 12:03:53 GMT -5
But they compete amongst themselves. Nobody can possibly deny that DK is easier than other classes even now - grinding for several hours for a white weapon doesnt come close to leveling an ironman from 1 to 55. Based on your logic they should already have a yellow flag. I don't agree. Veterans are pros. In general it is much harder to escape the starting zone legitimately. It is more than grinding for a white weapon.
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Post by Ironworgen on Mar 22, 2016 20:23:14 GMT -5
This frustrates me so much, and can't believe I am taking the bait again, but EVERYBODY that plays WoW knows that Death Knights start at 55.
The only thing that a yellow flag does is delegitimize a legitimate, if different, challenge.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2016 20:33:37 GMT -5
hmmm... that is certainly not my intention and yeah... I see that it would delegitmize it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2016 23:46:30 GMT -5
From the sounds of it, Legion will be going to Beta relatively soon. Once beta starts I'll be creating a new thread on the changes we're probably going to make based on what I've seen in Alpha + the feedback here. There won't be any official voting BUT all discussions will be considered.
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Post by brittleiron on Mar 23, 2016 15:28:39 GMT -5
But they compete amongst themselves. Nobody can possibly deny that DK is easier than other classes even now - grinding for several hours for a white weapon doesnt come close to leveling an ironman from 1 to 55. Based on your logic they should already have a yellow flag. DK is definitely one of the strong iron classes once you get out of the starting area... but one could easily point out hunters are silly easy as well. The speed at which I've seen a great number of folks get a new hunter to 60 (even "rookie" challengers) the class is clearly miles ahead of most iron classes. Leveling 1-20+ takes basically just time and a tiny amount of caution and very rarely will anyone outside the newest players die then. I'd dare say among the "vets" dying before 40 or even 60 is rare at this point because they've done it so many times the challenge doesn't even really start til Outland in their eyes. By that reasoning the challenge doesn't get "real" until after DK starting level anyways so who really cares. I'd love to see DK's just be part of the challenge and would argue harder for it if they weren't ripe for cheating.
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Post by iarnaig on Mar 24, 2016 12:47:09 GMT -5
Aside from the DK discussion (actually this thought kinda came out of it) - assuming the compulsory spec thing becomes reality, every character who makes any progress post-Legion will be "tainted", and there won't be any indicator of who got to high lvls before it hit. Would it be possible to make a snapshot of the leaderboard on the day before 7.0 hits, and keep it on a separate page as a permanent record of those who made it with no spec? Maybe even reduce it down to those who got to 60+ and add in high-lvl honoured dead (with a death marker)? Since the spec will be the biggest fundamental change to ironman we've had, it'd be nice to have permanent recognition of those who succeeded before it happened Edit to add - I know we already have the expansion flags, but that only shows which expansion the charcter hit lvl 10; for people like me, a lowbie character could sit around for quite a long time before actually levelling, and there'd be no difference between my hypothetical lowbie that made it to lvl 10 before 7.0 and did 100 lvls with a spec, and Lyssan or Ferres or others who reached 100 with no spec - all would have the same marker by lvl 110! So a way to show the pre-7.0 status of a character would be a nice thing for the older characters
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 14:41:37 GMT -5
I have something planned for this for sure.
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Dranina
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MotherOwl is Draninas old alias
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Post by Dranina on Mar 28, 2016 1:02:28 GMT -5
Leveling 1-20+ takes basically just time and a tiny amount of caution and very rarely will anyone outside the newest players die then. I'd dare say among the "vets" dying before 40 or even 60 is rare at this point because they've done it so many times the challenge doesn't even really start til Outland in their eyes. ( I play Paladin and I never made it to 60 or Outlands yet. My Hunter has not died so far, even dressed only in BELF Bandit mask and Festive dress. My monks die in Panddaland or to rare elites added in new to me zones, and my pacifist priests don't die barring DC's. Summa summarum, I tend to agree, 40ish is doable with comparative ease, only not for some difficult classes like Pally and Warrior.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 1:06:28 GMT -5
I ran through the new Alpha build 21384 to check what the specs were for Level 1 characters. There were no changes.
Additionally there were no changes to transmogging nor was there a statistic to track spec changes.
It's looking more and more like this is what we're going to have for the Legion release.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 13:56:42 GMT -5
An update from Alpha Build 21414. Everything has stayed the same with the exception being Death Knights.
Unholy Death Knights (default spec) were given three new abilities: - Death Strike (needs melee weapon) - Festering Strike (needs melee weapon) - Outbreak
Whereas before it was nigh impossible to have the DK kill the initiate, the addition of Outbreak allows the DK to generate runic power and thus use Death Coil. Previously the Unholy DK had no method of runic power generation. The ghoul is still fairly squishy, however, I was able to quite easily kill the initiate with a naked Unholy DK using the kiting strategy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 13:31:55 GMT -5
okay... did some actual Legion content testing today.
Ran through the first few DK starting quests up until you need to kill the Dark Rider and steal his horse. Completely doable as a Level 55 character with only an runeforged pitch fork, soleless boots, and a cape. In the Live version, you *must* be 56 so you can heal yourself *and* rely on some critical strikes landing. This zone is going to be a complete breeze compared to how it is now.
I created a premade Level 100 hunter (beast mastery). I'm not very proficient with the class but I'll say that I even if I had a ton of skill with the class, I'd still be dead. It's going to require every bit of ability you can muster.
I created a premade Level 100 DK and started through the Legion starting quests. As unholy I died fairly quickly. I respecced as Blood and had a far easier time, however, I discovered the NPC that was with me for the quest was doing a lot of the damage and healing me up. There is a point where you are on your own and need to fight a mob one-on-one. As a blood DK I *think* I might be able to take it but it is VERY risky. I died three times, however, once was due to other players dragging in mobs to me.
I've asked @warcraftdevs if the mob scaling applied to these mobs even though they aren't in Legion zones or if it's supposed to apply ONLY to mobs *in* Legion zones only. We'll see what they say.
Overall I'll say it will be exceptionally easier to level to 100, of that I have no doubt. After 102/103 and all your tricks and such... good luck in Legion. I'm sure we're going to have some folks reach 110 but I think the numbers will be comparable to the way they are now.
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Post by iarnaig on Apr 18, 2016 19:39:51 GMT -5
I've had a go at the Broken Shore scenario that's the equivalent to the Tanaan/Dark Portal intro in WoD... ooft. Obviously it's still to be tuned (right now pretty much everyone who tries it dies, several times, unless they're a healer spec when they might manage to heal themselves through most of it), but even after the worst unavoidable aoes and complete lack of NPC tanking have been fixed, it will be very iron unfriendly. Lots of ground stuff that if you don't move out of it fast, you take up to 1/2 your health in one hit. That will likely be toned down a little, as for classes with low selfhealing it's too punishing, but it's clearly supposed to hurt if you don't move!
You can just stand right back and let the NPCs do everything, but that would feel kinda wrong to me; there are also mobile cannons you can jump into and spam some dmg around fairly safely - have we ever had any discussions on optional vehicles for quests? Not sure how right it is to use one if it's not required? Well, I don't think it's right, but there might be cases others could make for it...
One good point: the mobs did NOT scale; I was lvl 102 and everything was lvl 100.
Class artifact quests also will be really hard as iron; I've done Disc/Holy priest, BM hunter and feral druid so far; all of them took a lot of damage and required good use of abilities (at least with the compulsory spec, we will actually have the abilities it expects us to use...). Only one I died on was druid (and that was actually before the spec specific quest, a giant in a place all druids pass through which many think is overtuned, so hopefully will be nerfed before it goes live), but I had a good few close calls, especially on the hunter quest, some crazy dmg there. And I was playing in premade 680 greens on all of them; not iron gear! I think Legion content will be a pretty steep learning curve, and agree with Stone that numbers reaching max lvl will be about as low as they are now, if not lower; think much use of scouts will be needed to figure out strategies.
Didn't notice scaling on artifact quests; I was lvl 100 on all except Holy and didn't notice when I did that one (too busy trying to stay alive from all the dmg being flung around - not recommended as iron unless you're an amazing healer...)
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Post by Lyssan on Apr 18, 2016 22:43:11 GMT -5
Nice summary Iarnaigvi! A couple of points: - I think no iron will ever try the intro at 102 if you can die in two hits. Maybe at 94-95 at the earliest. - Are artifact weapons required in Legion? Are artifact quests required? - Using vehicles provided for quests should be allowed even if they're perceived as optional. The quest designer intended them to be used. Same as mounts, flying points etc
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Post by iarnaig on Apr 19, 2016 8:59:22 GMT -5
- I think no iron will ever try the intro at 102 if you can die in two hits. Maybe at 94-95 at the earliest. Yep, what takes off 1/3 plus of my (lvl 102) health in full 680+ gear will oneshot an ironman, so they'd have to wait till lvl increased their healthpool enough to have any chance. Well obviously the weapon is not required for an ironman as we'd not be allowed to use it anyway (Stone would have to allow us one "equipped" in the stats though, as it's automatically equipped on you when you complete the quest - you cannot choose to not equip it, only to take it off again!). The quests however, are your intro to Broken Isles and the class halls, and lead onto being sent to other zones to quest. So far I am not convinced there is a way to the questing zones without doing the artifact lines, as the questchain provides you a flight to questing zones (eh, you can jump off Dalaran and hope to land in water, I guess...), and even if there is, will there be quests without having done the artifact chain? I may go and have a look around on a character I've not done the artifact chain on later and experiment Mostly I agree, but if they're so optional that half the people doing the scenario didn't notice they existed and didn't use them? All the vehicles in this one did was increase your dmg and reduce the dmg you took. I'm less sure about that one - might be more in the category of being given a water breathing elixir for a quest which you can do well enough without one (and you get flagged if you drink the elixir!)
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Post by iarnaig on Apr 19, 2016 9:42:45 GMT -5
So far I am not convinced there is a way to the questing zones without doing the artifact lines, as the questchain provides you a flight to questing zones (eh, you can jump off Dalaran and hope to land in water, I guess...), and even if there is, will there be quests without having done the artifact chain? I may go and have a look around on a character I've not done the artifact chain on later and experiment Ok, so, lvl 100 newly arrived in Dalaran with no artifact quest done: this is what the story will be after the initial Broken Shore scenario (which can't be skipped if you want to go to Broken isles at all, unless there's any fancy tricks like the Timeless isle/Gorgrond thing that we don't yet know about); you get a teleport to Dalaran first of all and then get offered the artifact quest. (Crash to desktop: assertion failure... hey, it's alpha ) Visit flightmaster: no paths known - what I expected really, you get given the paths when you're sent out on quests. Carefully drop down to the outside of the city; Suramar looks beautiful from up there, but that zone's not open yet (and is meant to be max lvl only) so no point aiming that way: instead I ran round till the point nearest to Azsuna, which is open... and disconnected from the server, ok, stability isn't quite 100% yet Found myself back at the flightpath, on the plus side I realised there's another route to where I wanted to be from within the city; think it'll be a pet battle arena in time and there's a hole in the wall that leads there so I went that way this time. Jumped off the side, landed safely in water and swam safely to shore! Not the best spot to pick as the first place I landed I saw lvl ?? mobs, guess I found one of the small pockets of max lvl-only mobs. Passed a questgiver quite quickly, so at least some quests are open to us this way. Found a town which the map said had a flightmaster but I couldn't see the flightmaster; maybe it has to be opened via a quest (never been there on a normal character yet!), there were a couple of quests though. A little further along, I found a rare spawn+adds patrolling the road, so roads are risky here! I then reached the town you initially get sent to in Azsuna; flightmaster works there, so I'm now connected to Dalaran, but there are no quests. The next two towns you're sent to questing are just the same. So without the artifact quest, you can get to the zones (at least, to Azsuna; probably most of the rest is reachable on foot too) but won't have many quests available. However, some side quests not connected to the main questline are open, as are bonus objectives (a couple are marked on the map, but there are more in areas you'd normally go to for the main questline) so it's not all locked out, just quite a lot of it.
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