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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 11:41:48 GMT -5
Forced equip of the artifact weapon is going to be a big issue. So far there is no statistic to show whether it was ever equipped or not... and honestly... with how Blizzard tracks that it would be useless as they track the item type by equipment slot not number of times a particular item was equipped.
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Post by iarnaig on Apr 19, 2016 14:40:12 GMT -5
Well I'd say it's not that big an issue; so few people will ever get that far, that I think anyone who does succeed as an ironman could perhaps be "trusted" as being unlikely to begin cheating once they got an artifact in their hands - you'll have to be a very dedicated and skilled ironman to survive the chains I've seen, and I'd imagine the others will be similar in difficulty level! So, as long as it's not going to cause red flags to people who've never willingly equipped it (being a different item type I imagine it won't), I think it's not so bad. Annoying, certainly, but really, the very few who get that far will most likely be doing so legitimately and wouldn't take advantage of it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 17:36:15 GMT -5
I'm going to ask around the dev forums if they're going to be including the artifact weapon with the api data thats available. Are you forced to assign points (or whatever) to the artifact weapon?
We can say the artifact weapon is against the rules BUT the problem here is that right now I don't think I can enforce that.... which is a big problem (see accusations of Draenor flying).
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Asyluun
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Post by Asyluun on Apr 19, 2016 19:50:34 GMT -5
Sounds like the iron man challenge is in for a really big change, I think a scout will be mandatory and I am still unclear if for the better Maybe ask the devs for a special iron man private server and allow stone as grand high poobah to make ironman changes as needed
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Post by iarnaig on Apr 19, 2016 21:48:29 GMT -5
I'm going to ask around the dev forums if they're going to be including the artifact weapon with the api data thats available. Are you forced to assign points (or whatever) to the artifact weapon? I think so, yes - you have to at least pick one talent on it in order to progress the questline to get sent on to other zones. That might well mean having to equip it once more, but in the safety of the class hall I don't have a problem with that, since you've already had to equip it once anyway. Well, it's just a weapon really, same as any other weapon; should be self-explanatory that you can't use it for fighting stuff, even if you have to once equip it - it's basically exactly the same as the DK starting gear: unequip it at the first opportunity, and do not use it for fighting - we can't track whether the DKs use their gear either (although largest hit dealt when they're still lvl 55 would offer clues, I guess). I really doubt that anyone good enough at ironman to make it through the artifact quest would suddenly be tempted to start cheating after all that, I'd say that's something more trustable than the Draenor flying thing, which in all honesty is down to interpretation (I can understand how those who don't read this forum might think that, as flying is ok in other zones, it would be in Draenor as well, if they don't think about the way it's earned), however much most of us think it's not right. Not fighting with a weapon with stats equipped is a core part of the rules and cannot be interpreted in any other way We could just ban the artifact weapon altogether, which would solve the problems, but given the questline is a HUGE challenge, and there's a whole heap of quests blocked behind it, it's probably more ironman to get through it alive than to avoid it entirely. I have to say I doubt I'd dare to try it, but those who want to, should be allowed to try IMO - I'm quite sure Lyssan would relish the challenge, for example!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 23:01:05 GMT -5
hmmm... is the artifact quest absolutely mandatory to complete before getting access to Broken Isles from what you can see?
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Post by Ironworgen on Apr 20, 2016 1:04:25 GMT -5
Hmmm, this may be a little premature, but I get the impression that there are going to be so many differences and exceptions in order to continue with the Iron Man Challenge, that the challenge is effectively dead, and anything going forward will be something else.
I am feeling a sense of urgency to pursue my Naked challenge since I feel that after the expansion, it won't be a challenge.
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Post by marston on Apr 20, 2016 2:40:26 GMT -5
Hmmm, this may be a little premature, but I get the impression that there are going to be so many differences and exceptions in order to continue with the Iron Man Challenge, that the challenge is effectively dead, and anything going forward will be something else. I am feeling a sense of urgency to pursue my Naked challenge since I feel that after the expansion, it won't be a challenge. Considering how often the Ironman challenge already changed since Cataclysm, it's just the next iteration. Yes, we now have to use a spec, but back in Cataclysm for example we had so much more skills per class, even without choosing a spec. I played a warrior then and now they are one of the hardest classes with only Heroic Strike and Victory Rush as skills that deal damage. Back then? Thunder Clap, Shield Slam, Execute and much more. I wouldn't worry too much. Maybe some parts get easier, but that may only mean we no longer have to be 4+ levels above the mobs to actually beat them.
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Post by iarnaig on Apr 20, 2016 8:31:15 GMT -5
hmmm... is the artifact quest absolutely mandatory to complete before getting access to Broken Isles from what you can see? Depends. It's not mandatory to reach Dalaran; only the Broken Shore scenario is - I tested yesterday that it is possible to jump off Dalaran and get flightpaths in Azsuna without doing the artifact quest. But to unlock the majority of questlines, it is mandatory - while reaching 110 on the very limited number of side quests may well be possible (scaling mobs at least means scaling exp too), what about the expansion after that? Going to be pretty rough with no Broken Isles quests to level up on.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 8:56:08 GMT -5
Hmmm, this may be a little premature, but I get the impression that there are going to be so many differences and exceptions in order to continue with the Iron Man Challenge, that the challenge is effectively dead, and anything going forward will be something else. I am feeling a sense of urgency to pursue my Naked challenge since I feel that after the expansion, it won't be a challenge. I don't agree. This is just another iteration that we're forced to go through. This challenge would be dead when you are incapable of ever actually dying and have that death stat tracked. Like the guardian Valkyr you get in the DK starting zone... except when you die it doesn't show in the stats. Sure the spec thing is going to make it easier but until we all do it, we can't really say what it's going to be like. I've been saying for a while now we're going to get lots of 100's... but after that... good luck. Limited testing so far reinforces this but who knows what things will be like when 7.0 goes live. Overall, the challenge might be dead for YOU but I'm pretty sure that folks are still going to be here trying it and dying like they always have. Just think... when Legion launches all of you folks that made it get the opportunity to tell us how you did when it was hard(er). How can you pass that up?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 9:16:35 GMT -5
I updated the original post with the artifact weapon info that we know so far.
As an aside, I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to take the tracking site offline once patch 7.0 goes live. Blizzard doesn't release their API as a beta or anything, so we really don't know where the new info is going to be and if there are structural changes to how the data gets organized. Basically when 7.0 goes live the site comes down while I figure out what the differences are between the old API and the new one.
Might be half an hour or two days... I really wish they would have some kind of beta API. :/
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 9:19:15 GMT -5
hmmm... is the artifact quest absolutely mandatory to complete before getting access to Broken Isles from what you can see? Depends. It's not mandatory to reach Dalaran; only the Broken Shore scenario is - I tested yesterday that it is possible to jump off Dalaran and get flightpaths in Azsuna without doing the artifact quest. But to unlock the majority of questlines, it is mandatory - while reaching 110 on the very limited number of side quests may well be possible (scaling mobs at least means scaling exp too), what about the expansion after that? Going to be pretty rough with no Broken Isles quests to level up on. Might be rough but since when have Irons shied away from a challenge? :-D I would really love for Legion to go into Beta so we can discuss rule adjustments... no point to do it now as anything can happen in Alpha.
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Post by iarnaig on Apr 20, 2016 9:34:14 GMT -5
There's "challenge" and then there's "we're now playing the Blood Thirsty challenge because there are no quests available" I'm thinking the auto-equip of the weapon could be looked at in the same way as other rulebreaks which are required for quests: eg, NPC helpers who won't stop buffing you, elixirs required to see items, etc. Those are allowed, and in the case of the NPC helpers, give more help than equipping a weapon out of combat (and then immediately unequipping it) could do.
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Post by marston on Apr 21, 2016 5:22:35 GMT -5
If we are forced to take a spec and there is no way to "unspec", why not just allow all specs then? I mean, there is a giant difference between no spec and a spec, but I doubt there are that many differencen between the specs within a class.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 20:02:56 GMT -5
Updated for build 21531. Don't see any changes made that we'd need to be worried about.
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