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Post by mosotti on Feb 7, 2018 6:33:07 GMT -5
Talents and/or greens just makes it regular WoW. And I hate Daily/Holiday quests. Irons should be able to do a quest once. No it doesn't, not after this patch. The other rules still can remain in place, no heirlooms, no potions etc. It's just a way to make the challenge actually a challenge, not something impossible for a lot of classes. Climbing Mount Everest naked is not a challenge, it's something stupid, that will kill you eventually. You have no chance to succeed. That's the Ironman challenge right now for a lot of people that maybe don't like to play a hunter. It's not that they can't do it, it's not possible even theoretically. People have gotten completely spoiled with how simple the game has become and seem afraid of an actual challenge. Well here is an actual challenge, stop crying and step up. There's nothing simple and easy in getting to level 110. It wasn't before the patch and certainly it isn't now. Especially if it's just impossible. I don't give a shit, since I only play hunter, it's my favorite class since I started playing 10 years ago. But seeing so many people saying they give up the challenge because they can't simply kill a fucking mob at their level should raise some concerns. The original challenge and the current challenge is to get to MAX LEVEL, not to level 19 or 31 or 47. See on the front page "The Iron Man Challenge is the toughest challenge in World of Warcraft. Make it to max level without dying." When this challenge was created there was the possibility of killing lower level mobs, you had a chance. Now that's just not possible anymore, so the challenge is not tough, but impossible So after these silly changes by Blizzard, I would pretty much prefer to see some changes in the rules, for example allow greens and talents but not dailies, and have people out in the world, killing stuff at their level, which is still risky as hell, but also have a healthy population, then the current situation, with people waiting for dailies and not being able to kill normal mobs and leaving...
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Xaya
Community Moderators
Posts: 1,682
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Post by Xaya on Feb 7, 2018 13:05:56 GMT -5
<snip> Stone's assumption from before the patch was dead wrong Honestly, I believe level-scaling will make things much faster for leveling in old-world content. Instead of farming green-level quests at slightly reduced XP, you'll be getting full quest XP. The mobs will be a little stronger as they will either be one level lower or at level than you, but they will be killed fairly quickly all the same. It'll make things a little more difficult for some classes (let's say the Shaman, they're horrid) but overall should be fine for most. the problem is not the scaling, it's that mobs now have a lot more hp. Scaling with the old hp would not be a problem for most classes
Xayablue lvl 84 draenai hunter (dead) Wyrmrest Accord Xayablood lvl 11 bloodthirsty nightelf druid (alive) Wyrmrest Accord Xayamonk lvl 110 tinman draenai monk Wyrmrest Accord Xayapaci lvl 36 pacifist gnome rogue (alive) Wyrmrest Accord Xayahorde lvl 21 bloodelf rogue (alive) Wyrmrest Accord
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Post by ironissa on Feb 7, 2018 13:36:29 GMT -5
<snip> Stone's assumption from before the patch was dead wrong the problem is not the scaling, it's that mobs now have a lot more hp. Scaling with the old hp would not be a problem for most classes
Xayablue lvl 84 draenai hunter (dead) Wyrmrest Accord Xayablood lvl 11 bloodthirsty nightelf druid (alive) Wyrmrest Accord Xayamonk lvl 110 tinman draenai monk Wyrmrest Accord Xayapaci lvl 36 pacifist gnome rogue (alive) Wyrmrest Accord Xayahorde lvl 21 bloodelf rogue (alive) Wyrmrest Accord
Yup. People were prepared for scaling but Blizzard didn't mention the increase in mob health or the XP/Heirloom nefs. If the wow forums are any indication of how people feel then I'm surprised they haven't already made changes. I wouldn't be surprised if they lower mob health a bit, increase damage, or at the very least increase XP gains.
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Post by mosotti on Feb 7, 2018 13:59:50 GMT -5
The changes were in the beta a lot and they didn't change them. I think there's a better indicator than those vocal crying 10 alts whiners: Blizzard can probably see a big increase in people leveling. I certainly can see it and even find it a little annoying. People were used to grab all the mobs in an area an AoE them with like no damage taken. I hope they won't give in like they did with Cata dungeons. I think the changing in leveling is great for the regular player, but very unfortunate for the Ironman challenge...
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Post by Discordiankitty on Feb 7, 2018 14:25:30 GMT -5
I think they might balance out some of the zones. Draenor sounds like a hack job. Otherwise I agree - I doubt there will be a lot of change, especially as their focus is now on BfA. Levelling normally *is* a lot more fun now.
If they do make changes, I suspect it will be to heirlooms, which won't affect irons either way.
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Post by winema on Feb 9, 2018 3:52:24 GMT -5
I have levelled a paladin in this Patch from level 1 to 61. A few things to note.
The first levels are relatively easy. You can kill rares and do the lower level zones with no problem. From 30 to 55 you will have to get used to using consecration (i levelled as prot pala) and heal yourself regularly to deal with almost every mob. Level 55 to level 61 are quite challenging. The mobs hit hard and you can rarely take two mobs at a time so those mobs that have minions are very dangerous. I survived by choosing my quests very carefully and running from things the second it seemed difficult. Your healing will, at these levels barely put up with the damage and you will have to heal frequently in every battle. I found that Felwood was doable (with the exception of the second half of the cave quests, from "Twin Temptresses" onward, as I simply could NOT take two mobs at the same time - maybe a better player than me can) and got to 60 there and went on to Winterspring. This difficulty and stress goes on until you finish level 60 and get to level 61. Then there is a change that is a relief. You suddenly can kill mobs quite easily, your sword and shield are actually effective and you take much less damage, and the common mobs are still (in Winterspring) giving 240 or so xp per mob and the quests around 9K, which is not bad. I will soon get a full level in Winterspring (assuming I survive) without too much stress. Who knows what will happen after that.
Will keep you posted about progress and difficulties
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Post by mrmacman65 on Feb 9, 2018 7:36:01 GMT -5
I have levelled a paladin in this Patch from level 1 to 61. A few things to note. The first levels are relatively easy. You can kill rares and do the lower level zones with no problem. From 30 to 55 you will have to get used to using consecration (i levelled as prot pala) and heal yourself regularly to deal with almost every mob. Level 55 to level 61 are quite challenging. The mobs hit hard and you can rarely take two mobs at a time so those mobs that have minions are very dangerous. I survived by choosing my quests very carefully and running from things the second it seemed difficult. Your healing will, at these levels barely put up with the damage and you will have to heal frequently in every battle. I found that Felwood was doable (with the exception of the second half of the cave quests, from "Twin Temptresses" onward, as I simply could NOT take two mobs at the same time - maybe a better player than me can) and got to 60 there and went on to Winterspring. This difficulty and stress goes on until you finish level 60 and get to level 61. Then there is a change that is a relief. You suddenly can kill mobs quite easily, your sword and shield are actually effective and you take much less damage, and the common mobs are still (in Winterspring) giving 240 or so xp per mob and the quests around 9K, which is not bad. I will soon get a full level in Winterspring (assuming I survive) without too much stress. Who knows what will happen after that. Will keep you posted about progress and difficulties Thanks, Winema...that's quite helpful, especially for those of us that are finding it more challenging.
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Post by brittleiron on Feb 9, 2018 8:50:57 GMT -5
The problem is this... comparing how a hunter isn't that much different than before (just takes longer) or how you can still manage as a tank spec or a healing class at 40+ doesn't do justice to how much worse things have gotten for purely DPS specs or for non-tank melee.
Before 7.3.5 ANY class or spec could easily reach 60 and much higher than that in most cases... that simply isn't the case now. The challenge compared to the past (pre-specs) was a joke, but now the pendulum has swung fully back the other way and in my opinion as someone that did the challenge from nearly the beginning is the hardest it has ever been. The mobs scaling based on an assumption of 'proper' gear for the level is crippling to Ironman at higher levels and unlike some people I highly doubt Blizzard will nerf it much at all.
I love the idea that perhaps the challenge should now be more about how far can you get rather than the post-spec world 'goal' of 110, but what is certain is that it is a completely different challenge than pre-7.3.5 and something needs to happen to address that as far as the leaderboards.
Edit: As far as the mobs feeling easier once you hit 61 that only applies if you stay in the zones that cap at 60... move to BC/WotLK content and the scaling issue rears its head again. You can knock out a few 'easy' levels from 61-63 or maybe 64 much like staying in zones capped at 20 until 24'ish but eventually you end up back in the scaling uphill climb.
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Post by mosotti on Feb 9, 2018 15:31:20 GMT -5
I love the idea that perhaps the challenge should now be more about how far can you get rather than the post-spec world 'goal' of 110 That only makes sense for limited timed challenges otherwise everyone will just wait for holidays and dailies forever. Since there's a hard mathematical impossibility to kill a mob after some level for some classes, that means all that would make a difference are the seasonal and risk free dailies. That's not Ironman at all... Even hunter feels much harder now, at level 45 I feel like before the patch at 105, except that the mob damage is a little low, but not much. Things have gone downhill since level 35, I wonder how it'll be at 60
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Post by mosotti on Feb 18, 2018 11:37:47 GMT -5
Got to level 60 in 2d3h as BM hunter. I play naked and I have the bow from Ghostlands vendor. That's more than double the time than before and with a lot of suspense and drama. Now I'm level 61, the mobs became a little easier, the quest experience is still very high. So this is a GREAT change, I hope to squeeze a couple of levels before going to Outland.
I have also leveled scout, I will try that first in Outland. Full heirloom is a piece of cake, not really anything changed. Mobs die in 2-3 hits, and the damage from mobs is like 0. I'm used to continuously heal the pet, but on normal it's not really needed to heal lol.
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Post by mosotti on Feb 19, 2018 15:19:09 GMT -5
Level 64, I pretty much kill everything in 1-2 shots, except some quest bosses that are 3-4 shots lol
However, there are surprises, there was rare that was 62 and for some reason my megapower didn't work on it. I had to trap it like 5 times, he went through my turtle like a truck. I thought it's the level 62, but other rares level 62 die like flies...
Also the twilight mobs in Silithus are scaling all the way to 110, I had no idea about that, surprizeeee
At level 64 quests give usually 1900xp, and some of them which are "harder" about 2200xp. Mobs are around 50xp. I will finish this level and then I will try Outland, because the xp is too low from 65 onward.
Anyway, the xp after level 60 is much higher than before, it use to be like 6xp for a mob after hitting level 60 lol
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Post by MotherOwl (Dranina) on Feb 24, 2018 3:53:56 GMT -5
One good thing as a pacifist after the patch. The aggro range of mobs are scaling too. This gives you a better chance of exploring, picking and mining without aggroing anything.
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Post by mrmacman65 on Feb 25, 2018 8:52:17 GMT -5
This is brutal for passives...just trying to get through mobs...my latest was mobbed on her mount.
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Post by MotherOwl (Dranina) on Feb 26, 2018 9:39:45 GMT -5
This is brutal for passives...just trying to get through mobs...my latest was mobbed on her mount. Funny how different the same change can seem to work for different people. I love it as a Pacifist. The aggro seems way lover, and you saying that it's pure murder for your Pacifist. What level are you? I'm level 33.
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Post by mrmacman65 on Feb 26, 2018 14:48:31 GMT -5
This is brutal for passives...just trying to get through mobs...my latest was mobbed on her mount. Funny how different the same change can seem to work for different people. I love it as a Pacifist. The aggro seems way lover, and you saying that it's pure murder for your Pacifist. What level are you? I'm level 33. I was 23 or so and mistakenly tried to run through a bunch of gnolls in Westfall: failed. I actually like my bloodthirsty better, because I just hunt rares..currently, level 16, and I'm allowed to wear greens.
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